19edo: Difference between revisions

Line 21:

However, for all of these 19edo has the practical advantage of requiring fewer pitches, which makes it easier to implement in physical instruments, and many 19edo instruments have been built. 19edo is in fact the second edo, after [[12edo]] which is able to approximate [[5-limit]] intervals and chords with tolerable accuracy (unless you count [[15edo]]), and is the fifth [[zeta integral edo]], after 12edo. It is less successful in the [[7-limit]] (but still better than 12edo), as it conflates the septimal subminor third ([[7/6]]) with the septimal whole tone ([[8/7]]). 19edo also has the advantage of being excellent for [[negri]], [[keemun]], [[godzilla]], magic/muggles, and [[triton]]/[[liese]], and fairly decent for sensi. Keemun and negri are of particular note for being very simple 7-limit temperaments, with their [[mos scale]]s in 19edo offering a great abundance of septimal tetrads. The [[Graham complexity]] of a 7-limit tetrad is 6 for keemun, 7 for negri, 8 for godzilla, 10 for meantone, 11 for triton, 12 for magic/muggles, and 13 for sensi.

~~=== Adaptive tuning and octave stretch ===~~

Being a zeta integral tuning, the no-11's 13-limit is represented relatively well and consistently. Practically 19edo can be used ''adaptively'' on instruments which allow you to bend notes up: by different amounts, the 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 13th harmonics are all tuned flat. This is in contrast to 12edo, where this is not possible since the 5th and 7th harmonics are not only much farther from just than they are in 19edo, but fairly sharp already. 19edo's negri, sensi and godzilla scales have many 13-limit chords. (You can think of the Sensi[8] [[3L 5s]] mos scale as 19edo's answer to the diminished scale. Both are made of two diminished seventh chords, but Sensi[8] gives you additional ratios of 7 and 13.)

Another option would be to use [[octave stretching]]; the closest [[the Riemann zeta function and tuning #Optimal octave stretch|local zeta peak]] to 19 occurs at 18.9481, which makes the octaves 1203.29{{c}}, and a step size of between 63.2–63.4{{c}} would be preferable in theory. Pianos are frequently tuned with stretched octaves anyway due to the slight inharmonicity inherent in their strings, which makes 19edo a promising option for pianos with split sharps. Octave stretching also means that an out-of-tune interval can be replaced with a compounded or inverted version of it which is near-just. For example, if we are using [[49ed6]] or [[30ed3]] (which tune 6:1 and 3:1 just and have octaves stretched by 2.8 and 4.57{{c}}, respectively), then we have near-just minor thirds (6:5), compound major thirds (as 5:1), and compound fifths (as 6:1), giving us versions of everything in the 5-limit tonality diamond. The compound major and minor triads (1:5:6 and 30:6:5) are near-just as well. The most extreme of these options would be [[11edf]], which has octaves stretched by 12.47{{c}}.

=== As a means of extending harmony ===

Because 19edo's 5-limit chords are more blended and consonant than those of 12edo, it can be a much better candidate for using alternate forms of harmony such as quartal, secundal, and poly chords. [[William Lynch]] suggests the use of seventh chords of various types to be the fundamental sonorities with a triad deemed as incomplete. Higher extensions involving the 7th harmonic as well as other non-diatonic chord extensions which tend to clash in 12edo blend much better in 19edo.

~~19edo's diminished fifth is also a very accurate approximation of the 23rd harmonic, being only 3.3{{c}} off [[23/16]].~~

In addition, [[Joseph Yasser]] talks about the idea of a 12-tone supra-diatonic scale where the 7-tone major scale in 19edo becomes akin to the pentatonic of western music; as it would sound to a future generation, ambiguous and not tonally fortified. As paraphrased "A system in which the undeniable laws of tonal gravity exist, yet in a much more complex tonal universe." Yasser believed that music would eventually move to a 19-tone system with a 12-note supra-diatonic scale would become the standard. While this has yet to happen, Yasser's concept of supra-diatonicity is intriguing and worth exploring for those wanting to extend tonality without sounding too alien.

Line 40:

Line 33:

=== Prime harmonics ===

=== Adaptive tuning and octave stretch ===

Being a zeta integral tuning, the no-11's 13-limit is represented relatively well and consistently. 19edo's negri, sensi and godzilla scales have many 13-limit chords. (You can think of the Sensi[8] [[3L 5s]] mos scale as 19edo's answer to the diminished scale. Both are made of two diminished seventh chords, but Sensi[8] gives you additional ratios of 7 and 13.) Its diminished fifth is also a very accurate approximation of the 23rd harmonic, being only 3.3{{c}} off [[23/16]].

Practically 19edo can be used ''adaptively'' on instruments which allow you to bend notes up: by different amounts, the 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 13th harmonics are all tuned flat. This is in contrast to 12edo, where this is not possible since the 5th and 7th harmonics are not only much farther from just than they are in 19edo, but fairly sharp already.

Another option would be to use [[octave stretching]]; the closest [[the Riemann zeta function and tuning #Optimal octave stretch|local zeta peak]] to 19 occurs at 18.9481, which makes the octaves 1203.29{{c}}, and a step size of between 63.2–63.4{{c}} would be preferable in theory. Pianos are frequently tuned with stretched octaves anyway due to the slight inharmonicity inherent in their strings, which makes 19edo a promising option for pianos with split sharps. Octave stretching also means that an out-of-tune interval can be replaced with a compounded or inverted version of it which is near-just. For example, if we are using [[49ed6]] or [[30ed3]] (which tune 6:1 and 3:1 just and have octaves stretched by 2.8 and 4.57{{c}}, respectively), then we have near-just minor thirds (6:5), compound major thirds (as 5:1), and compound fifths (as 6:1), giving us versions of everything in the 5-limit tonality diamond. The compound major and minor triads (1:5:6 and 30:6:5) are near-just as well. The most extreme of these options would be [[11edf]], which has octaves stretched by 12.47{{c}}.

=== Subsets and supersets ===

@@ Line 21: / Line 21: @@
 However, for all of these 19edo has the practical advantage of requiring fewer pitches, which makes it easier to implement in physical instruments, and many 19edo instruments have been built. 19edo is in fact the second edo, after [[12edo]] which is able to approximate [[5-limit]] intervals and chords with tolerable accuracy (unless you count [[15edo]]), and is the fifth [[zeta integral edo]], after 12edo. It is less successful in the [[7-limit]] (but still better than 12edo), as it conflates the septimal subminor third ([[7/6]]) with the septimal whole tone ([[8/7]]). 19edo also has the advantage of being excellent for [[negri]], [[keemun]], [[godzilla]], magic/muggles, and [[triton]]/[[liese]], and fairly decent for sensi. Keemun and negri are of particular note for being very simple 7-limit temperaments, with their [[mos scale]]s in 19edo offering a great abundance of septimal tetrads. The [[Graham complexity]] of a 7-limit tetrad is 6 for keemun, 7 for negri, 8 for godzilla, 10 for meantone, 11 for triton, 12 for magic/muggles, and 13 for sensi.
-=== Adaptive tuning and octave stretch ===
-Being a zeta integral tuning, the no-11's 13-limit is represented relatively well and consistently. Practically 19edo can be used ''adaptively'' on instruments which allow you to bend notes up: by different amounts, the 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 13th harmonics are all tuned flat. This is in contrast to 12edo, where this is not possible since the 5th and 7th harmonics are not only much farther from just than they are in 19edo, but fairly sharp already. 19edo's negri, sensi and godzilla scales have many 13-limit chords. (You can think of the Sensi[8] [[3L&nbsp;5s]] mos scale as 19edo's answer to the diminished scale. Both are made of two diminished seventh chords, but Sensi[8] gives you additional ratios of 7 and 13.)
-Another option would be to use [[octave stretching]]; the closest [[the Riemann zeta function and tuning #Optimal octave stretch|local zeta peak]] to 19 occurs at 18.9481, which makes the octaves 1203.29{{c}}, and a step size of between 63.2–63.4{{c}} would be preferable in theory. Pianos are frequently tuned with stretched octaves anyway due to the slight inharmonicity inherent in their strings, which makes 19edo a promising option for pianos with split sharps. Octave stretching also means that an out-of-tune interval can be replaced with a compounded or inverted version of it which is near-just. For example, if we are using [[49ed6]] or [[30ed3]] (which tune 6:1 and 3:1 just and have octaves stretched by 2.8 and 4.57{{c}}, respectively), then we have near-just minor thirds (6:5), compound major thirds (as 5:1), and compound fifths (as 6:1), giving us versions of everything in the 5-limit tonality diamond. The compound major and minor triads (1:5:6 and 30:6:5) are near-just as well. The most extreme of these options would be [[11edf]], which has octaves stretched by 12.47{{c}}.
 === As a means of extending harmony ===
 Because 19edo's 5-limit chords are more blended and consonant than those of 12edo, it can be a much better candidate for using alternate forms of harmony such as quartal, secundal, and poly chords. [[William Lynch]] suggests the use of seventh chords of various types to be the fundamental sonorities with a triad deemed as incomplete. Higher extensions involving the 7th harmonic as well as other non-diatonic chord extensions which tend to clash in 12edo blend much better in 19edo.
-edo's diminished fifth is also a very accurate approximation of the 23rd harmonic, being only 3.3{{c}} off [[23/16]].
 In addition, [[Joseph Yasser]] talks about the idea of a 12-tone supra-diatonic scale where the 7-tone major scale in 19edo becomes akin to the pentatonic of western music; as it would sound to a future generation, ambiguous and not tonally fortified. As paraphrased "A system in which the undeniable laws of tonal gravity exist, yet in a much more complex tonal universe." Yasser believed that music would eventually move to a 19-tone system with a 12-note supra-diatonic scale would become the standard. While this has yet to happen, Yasser's concept of supra-diatonicity is intriguing and worth exploring for those wanting to extend tonality without sounding too alien.
@@ Line 40: / Line 33: @@
 === Prime harmonics ===
 {{Harmonics in equal|19|columns=12}}
+=== Adaptive tuning and octave stretch ===
+Being a zeta integral tuning, the no-11's 13-limit is represented relatively well and consistently. 19edo's negri, sensi and godzilla scales have many 13-limit chords. (You can think of the Sensi[8] [[3L&nbsp;5s]] mos scale as 19edo's answer to the diminished scale. Both are made of two diminished seventh chords, but Sensi[8] gives you additional ratios of 7 and 13.) Its diminished fifth is also a very accurate approximation of the 23rd harmonic, being only 3.3{{c}} off [[23/16]].
+Practically 19edo can be used ''adaptively'' on instruments which allow you to bend notes up: by different amounts, the 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 13th harmonics are all tuned flat. This is in contrast to 12edo, where this is not possible since the 5th and 7th harmonics are not only much farther from just than they are in 19edo, but fairly sharp already.
+Another option would be to use [[octave stretching]]; the closest [[the Riemann zeta function and tuning #Optimal octave stretch|local zeta peak]] to 19 occurs at 18.9481, which makes the octaves 1203.29{{c}}, and a step size of between 63.2–63.4{{c}} would be preferable in theory. Pianos are frequently tuned with stretched octaves anyway due to the slight inharmonicity inherent in their strings, which makes 19edo a promising option for pianos with split sharps. Octave stretching also means that an out-of-tune interval can be replaced with a compounded or inverted version of it which is near-just. For example, if we are using [[49ed6]] or [[30ed3]] (which tune 6:1 and 3:1 just and have octaves stretched by 2.8 and 4.57{{c}}, respectively), then we have near-just minor thirds (6:5), compound major thirds (as 5:1), and compound fifths (as 6:1), giving us versions of everything in the 5-limit tonality diamond. The compound major and minor triads (1:5:6 and 30:6:5) are near-just as well. The most extreme of these options would be [[11edf]], which has octaves stretched by 12.47{{c}}.
 === Subsets and supersets ===