Collection of EDO impressions: Difference between revisions

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: '''Mike''': lol

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Contained within 12 and so not worth talking about.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' It's just a single note m8, but somehow it's all we need

; [[2edo]]

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: '''Mike''': lol

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Contained within 12 and so not worth talking about.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' It's just a tritone m8, but 12edo and fellow even edos just wouldn't be the same without it

; [[3edo]]

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: '''Mike''': lol

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Contained within 12 and so not worth talking about.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Honestly I've just never been much of a fan of this one.

; [[4edo]]

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: '''Mike''': lol

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Contained within 12 and so not worth talking about.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' UH OH IT'S A TRAIN A-COMING 💀

; [[5edo]]

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: '''Keenan''': Smallest useful EDO, and it's really cool. Basically 2.3.7 limit (no hint of the 5th harmonic at all), and a great candidate for a scale people can just bang away on. Regular temperament model of slendro.

: '''Mike''':

:: 1. smallest EDO that has something resembling 3/2. Has a great approximation of the 7th harmonic. Really awesome, stretched out, equal pentatonic scale. Sevish features it here as a prominent subset of 15-EDO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPmuKUm2kJg

:: 1. smallest EDO that has something resembling 3/2. Has a great approximation of the 7th harmonic. Really awesome, stretched out, equal pentatonic scale. Sevish features it here as a prominent subset of 15-EDO: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPmuKUm2kJg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPmuKUm2kJg]

:: 2. equipentatonic, which is trippy

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': The emancipation from harmony. Nothing clashes with anything else, so you're free to play any combination of notes and concentrate on rhythm, arrangement and instrumentation instead. (and you really need to push those other areas to keep it from getting boring.)

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' As the others have already explained, this one is a certified hood classic. I second what Bozu and Keenan said

; [[6edo]]

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: '''Mike''': the whole tone scale. But, if you flatten the octaves, you can get almost perfect 4:5:7:11 chords, which is worth noting.

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': A universe in monochrome. You can make things out, but so much is missing.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' ''wooOO the main character's having a flashback or a dream! *always visually accompanied by a ripple effect*''

; [[7edo]]

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:: 2. equidiatonic, which is trippy

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': The emancipation from harmony, but now with recognisable, if bland diatonic melodies.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' The basis of knowsur's melody and harmony on the 14edo album NANA WODORI, and thus one of my personal favorites.

; [[8edo]]

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:: 2. 8-EDO is a great tuning but I dunno if it has a ton of specifically categorically interesting stuff

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Any combination of more than 2 notes sounds bad, and most 2 note combinations sound bad too. Just vile.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' I'm convinced anyone who thinks this edo legitimately sounds good are lying

; [[9edo]]

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:: 2. has a lot of what 16-EDO does but with less notes. However, 3/2 is weaker. comparing 9-EDO to 16-EDO can let you compare less notes + easier categorization vs more notes + better accuracy. Smallest EDO with major and minor chords (unless you count 8-EDO but that's kind of out there)

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Marvellously elegant little system. More than enough room for complex melodies and fortifying them with double-stopped 3rds and 6ths sounds awesome.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' The only song I ever heard in this edo was from the video "1 to 11 tone Equal temperament songs" by 5 hideya, but it sounded like anxiety on steroids.

; [[10edo]]

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:: 2. don't know a lot about it, but 10-note scales are interesting for also being something in which major and minor can share a triad class, which may be of semi-categorical relevance

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': A universe that's recognisable, but everything is distorted and the people have no faces. The merging of 3rds and 6ths removes one of the primary forms of textural expressiveness in 12, leaving it disconcertingly emotionally flat.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Apparently it's pretty cool. '''Bill Sethares:''' ''If God Had Intended Us To Play In Ten Tones Per Octave, Then He Would Have Given Us Ten Fingers''

; [[11edo]]

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: '''Mike''':

:: 1. Amazing and totally underrated EDO. It supports excellent 4:7:9:11 chords, as well as 4:7:9:11:15:17:19 chords if you're into that thing. Was once thought to be mostly "atonal" for lacking 3/2, but revealed as a low-numbered EDO of prime interest after the Great Subgroup Revolution Of 2011. Giving you decently accurate tetradic harmony for only 11 notes is almost a miracle. Supports [[machine]] temperament, of which the 2 2 1 2 2 2 MOS is of interest for being stable and sounding like a "warped diatonic." Example here that loosely uses it:

:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhPjsCoMy-Q. Also supports orgone[7], or 2 2 1 2 1 2 1, which is another "warped diatonic" scale. An example of this:

:: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhPjsCoMy-Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhPjsCoMy-Q]. Also supports orgone[7], or 2 2 1 2 1 2 1, which is another "warped diatonic" scale. An example of this:

:: http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliaexperiments/sets/tonal-study-in-orgone-temperament/. Also, much like 8-EDO supports the excellent and underrated 2.9/7.5/3 version of sensi temperament.

:: [https://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliaexperiments/sets/tonal-study-in-orgone-temperament/ http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliaexperiments/sets/tonal-study-in-orgone-temperament/]. Also, much like 8-EDO supports the excellent and underrated 2.9/7.5/3 version of sensi temperament.

:: 2. has machine[6] which is a key warped diatonic scale, and orgone[7]. I'd say 11-EDO is way up there in terms of key things to learn for categories because it's small, has great 4:7:9:11 triads, and has warped diatonic scales.

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': It can almost pass for 12 as long as you only play one note at at time, but more than that and it's limitations become painfully clear.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' One of the only ones I'll probably never explore out of sheer fear

; [[12edo]]

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: '''Inthar''': Not a bad tuning, all things considered.

: '''Keenan''': Excellent 5-limit temperament with strong hints of 7. The ideal tuning for the wildly popular [[dominant]] temperament. Also [[augmented]] and [[diminished]]. Currently used as a basis for adaptive tuning, as well as directly, by a huge number of "non-xenharmonic" ensembles.

: '''Mike''': If all things are considered, and any personal boredom with it is ignored, it's a really frickin good temperament. For its size, it supports remarkable 5-limit harmony, has a debatably passable representation of the 7-limit, and can sort of "hint" at 11, as in the string of ascending dom9#11 chords in the beginning of this Art Tatum video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPeks0H3_s. Our theory places "12-EDO" and "meantone" as one example of an infinite series of musical tunings, all of which are of potential interest - however, care must be taken to not unfairly diminish 12-EDO's value in a mathematical sense because one may simply be bored with it. Many feel that everything in it "has already been done"; I have a different perspective as a jazz musician in NYC, where people do new and interesting things with 12-EDO every time I go to Smalls'. (Be more creative!!)

: '''Mike''': If all things are considered, and any personal boredom with it is ignored, it's a really frickin good temperament. For its size, it supports remarkable 5-limit harmony, has a debatably passable representation of the 7-limit, and can sort of "hint" at 11, as in the string of ascending dom9#11 chords in the beginning of this Art Tatum video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPeks0H3_s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPeks0H3_s]. Our theory places "12-EDO" and "meantone" as one example of an infinite series of musical tunings, all of which are of potential interest - however, care must be taken to not unfairly diminish 12-EDO's value in a mathematical sense because one may simply be bored with it. Many feel that everything in it "has already been done"; I have a different perspective as a jazz musician in NYC, where people do new and interesting things with 12-EDO every time I go to Smalls'. (Be more creative!!)

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': The more I study it, the more it's flaws and limitations irritate me.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': For all the hate others have for 12edo, I have love and respect. I believe we microtonal musicians take it for granted, and while it's not the best edo to be the western standard regarding sheer possibilities in this tuning, it's very far from the worst choice imo, and I'd personally choose it as western culture's standard tuning over most all other edos of a similar size.

; [[13edo]]

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: '''Yourmusic Productions''': All the various kinds of 9thno5 chords work, and have interesting new flavours compared to their 12edo equivalents. Well worth getting to grips with the cluster based harmony needed to make it sound nice.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' The other one I'll probably never explore out of sheer fear

; [[14edo]]

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:: 2. has the whole "kloog" slash "kleeg" thing going on, and also has touch tone noises as intervals for you to try and categorize

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': The opposite of 10 - recognisable, but distorted so there's three types of 3rd and 6th with exaggerated expressive qualities. Even though it's best intervals aren't as in tune as 12, it sounds much less dissonant when playing all the notes at once, so it seems a natural home for Schoenberg influenced serialism and extended chords.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Need I say anything? It used to be my bae, and will forever have a special spot in my heart.

; [[15edo]]

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: '''Mike''': has 5-limit harmony plus a 5 note circle of 3/2's, which is crazy in terms of "tonality," which would seem to be peripherally relevant

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Like 14, not as good at simple harmonies as 12, but some glorious extended blackwood chords that combine more notes than you can in 12 and still sound good. Porcupine looks simpler, but I actually find it more of a struggle than blackwood to use.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Blackwood[10] is like the coolest scale ever, change my mind (you won't)

; [[16edo]]

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: '''Mike''': is notable for being the first EDO (to me) where the 3 step interval can sound like "a step" instead of "a leap." Example is machine: 3 3 1 3 3 3. Much like 3 3 1 3 3 3 1 in 17-EDO, machine[6] in 16-EDO has L/s = 3/1 but the 3-step interval still sounds like "a second." It sounds like 16-EDO is an "enharmonic" scale for machine[11], which I (sort of) perceive as the true "background" for 331333, much like I perceive 19-EDO as an enharmonic underpinning for meantone[12] or whatever.

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': 12's evil twin. Scales are recognisable but inverted and everything but the mellowest of timbres or simplest of harmonies sounds horrible once you start combining notes.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' I want Easley Blackwood's "16 notes: Andantino" to play at my funeral

; [[17edo]]

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: '''Mike''': superpyth machine blah blah

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Interestingly alien, but with good 2nd's, 4ths & 5ths to retreat too when you're not sure what to do next.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Some people like that one guy who wrote a paper argue this is better for diatonic melody & counterpoint, but at what cost? The answer is concordant triadic harmony lol

; [[18edo]]

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: '''Mike''': has a really useful 10 note scale called "supersharp" which is 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 2 1, which has major/minor/diminished chords which are a bit sharp

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': A universe in monochrome, but with extended dynamic range. There's enough complexity in other areas to keep it interesting, but I'm still aware in the back of my mind that something's missing.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' I'll go out on a limb and guess this is one of the least used and least liked edos. I have nothing against it, but I have nothing for it.

; [[19edo]]

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: '''Mike''': needs to be in there for the above reason about enharmonic-sized EDOs in general, but also because learning to differentiate things like #4's and b5's is easy and attainable and a good "first step." I hear A# and Bb as different notes in 19-EDO now - the first fits into things like E lydian, the second fits into things like E diminished, etc. Then you can experiment with melodic diesis movements

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': The more I study it, the more I love how elegantly everything fits together, how you can use standard notation, but things that are equivalent in 12 actually have proper meaning here, how familiar tunes are transferable and recognisable but the emphasis on intervals is subtly shifted to making minor chords and melodies sound more stable and consonant than major ones. It still has it's limitations, power chord based heavy rock in particular suffers from the weaker 5ths, but just works so much better than 12 in general.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' I'd rate it 10/10 if it didn't have such a shite approximation of 7/4, but 9.5/10 is still quite good. Sunsrise by SAGA and the cover Sunsrise v2 on YouTube have made my brain explode in the best way possible.

; [[20edo]]

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: '''Keenan''': More-complicated version of [[blackwood]], not much else. Instead of [5edo interval], minor, major, [5edo interval] it now goes [5edo interval], minor, neutral, major, [5edo interval]. Big deal. I'd choose 15 over 20 any day because it has porcupine.

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Looking at the math on paper, it should be possible to create pleasant music in this one, but nothing I've heard has actually managed it yet.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Once edos get this big, they no longer offer me the inherent "woah I'm a small number edo" appeal, and that's when having other redeemable qualities must kick in. I'm yet to hear of such qualities with this edo.

; [[21edo]]

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: '''Keenan''': First usable (sub-optimal) [[whitewood]] EDO, not much else.

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Like 14 but moreso. Dramatically exaggerated harmonic expressiveness, shares the relatively nice major 3rd with 12 rather than the horrible tritone, and the highest edo that works with standard notation without having to add more letters or learn new kinds of accidental. Not as good as 19 for familiar sounding intervals, but still really rather nice.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Once edos get this big, they no longer offer me the inherent "woah I'm a small number edo" appeal, and that's when having other redeemable qualities must kick in. I'm yet to hear of such qualities with this edo, but I've heard inthar compose very pretty music in it. All that said, it's a multiple of 7edo so I should be a fan of it.

; [[22edo]]

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: '''Mike''': in keeping with the above note about enharmonic EDOs, can be thought of as an enharmonic scale for something like porcupine, so that you can perceive a 15-note background but have better intonation - the same way you can perceive a 12-note background in 19 (meantone[12]) but have better intonation than 12. You can do the same with orwell and perceive an orwell[13]-note background, but have much better intonation for orwell than 13-EDO itself. There's other stuff too. Also has superpyth[7] which is good for revealing the diatonic scale in a different intonational context.

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Like 24, only the new harmonic options are actually more in tune than the familiar ones rather than less. Better than 12 but still not quite as good as 19 overall.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Gleam was the first microtonal song for me. I have no words to describe it other than ear candy of the future, peering into an alternate world with music better than our own. That aside, having concordant major and minor triads and a usable 11/8 approximation is really nice, but lacking a really concordant and non-septimal diatonic scale is a deal-breaker for me regarding me composing in it & exploring it.

; [[23edo]]

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: '''Mike''': same as the above but with mavila and 16-EDO and some other stuff too.

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Not enough songs using this to get a proper opinion. Definitely one of the tougher ones to get to grips with.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Thanks, I hate it. Eikositriophobia exists for a reason.

; [[24edo]]

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: '''Mike''': allows you to take a sound you all intuitively know (the blues) and make it "real" and "tangible" and manipulate it to see what comes of it

: '''Yourmusic Productions''': Double the complexity, but considerably less than double the number of good-sounding combinations. A lot of extra work for little extra return.

: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Many people in the microtonal community write it off due to the notoriousness of "quarter tone music", but I'm particularly attracted to the new 12edo-polyphony key changes possible in this tuning.

; [[25edo]]

@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 : '''Mike''': lol
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Contained within 12 and so not worth talking about.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' It's just a single note m8, but somehow it's all we need
 ; [[2edo]]
@@ Line 26: / Line 27: @@
 : '''Mike''': lol
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Contained within 12 and so not worth talking about.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' It's just a tritone m8, but 12edo and fellow even edos just wouldn't be the same without it
 ; [[3edo]]
@@ Line 34: / Line 36: @@
 : '''Mike''': lol
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Contained within 12 and so not worth talking about.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Honestly I've just never been much of a fan of this one.
 ; [[4edo]]
@@ Line 42: / Line 45: @@
 : '''Mike''': lol
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Contained within 12 and so not worth talking about.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' UH OH IT'S A TRAIN A-COMING 💀
 ; [[5edo]]
@@ Line 50: / Line 54: @@
 : '''Keenan''': Smallest useful EDO, and it's really cool. Basically 2.3.7 limit (no hint of the 5th harmonic at all), and a great candidate for a scale people can just bang away on. Regular temperament model of slendro.
 : '''Mike''':
-:: 1. smallest EDO that has something resembling 3/2. Has a great approximation of the 7th harmonic. Really awesome, stretched out, equal pentatonic scale. Sevish features it here as a prominent subset of 15-EDO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPmuKUm2kJg
+:: 1. smallest EDO that has something resembling 3/2. Has a great approximation of the 7th harmonic. Really awesome, stretched out, equal pentatonic scale. Sevish features it here as a prominent subset of 15-EDO: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPmuKUm2kJg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPmuKUm2kJg]
 :: 2. equipentatonic, which is trippy
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': The emancipation from harmony. Nothing clashes with anything else, so you're free to play any combination of notes and concentrate on rhythm, arrangement and instrumentation instead. (and you really need to push those other areas to keep it from getting boring.)
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' As the others have already explained, this one is a certified hood classic. I second what Bozu and Keenan said
 ; [[6edo]]
@@ Line 61: / Line 66: @@
 : '''Mike''': the whole tone scale. But, if you flatten the octaves, you can get almost perfect 4:5:7:11 chords, which is worth noting.
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': A universe in monochrome. You can make things out, but so much is missing.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' ''wooOO the main character's having a flashback or a dream! *always visually accompanied by a ripple effect*''
 ; [[7edo]]
@@ Line 72: / Line 78: @@
 :: 2. equidiatonic, which is trippy
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': The emancipation from harmony, but now with recognisable, if bland diatonic melodies.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' The basis of knowsur's melody and harmony on the 14edo album NANA WODORI, and thus one of my personal favorites.
 ; [[8edo]]
@@ Line 83: / Line 90: @@
 :: 2. 8-EDO is a great tuning but I dunno if it has a ton of specifically categorically interesting stuff
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Any combination of more than 2 notes sounds bad, and most 2 note combinations sound bad too. Just vile.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' I'm convinced anyone who thinks this edo legitimately sounds good are lying
 ; [[9edo]]
@@ Line 94: / Line 102: @@
 :: 2. has a lot of what 16-EDO does but with less notes. However, 3/2 is weaker. comparing 9-EDO to 16-EDO can let you compare less notes + easier categorization vs more notes + better accuracy. Smallest EDO with major and minor chords (unless you count 8-EDO but that's kind of out there)
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Marvellously elegant little system. More than enough room for complex melodies and fortifying them with double-stopped 3rds and 6ths sounds awesome.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' The only song I ever heard in this edo was from the video "1 to 11 tone Equal temperament songs" by 5 hideya, but it sounded like anxiety on steroids.
 ; [[10edo]]
@@ Line 105: / Line 114: @@
 :: 2. don't know a lot about it, but 10-note scales are interesting for also being something in which major and minor can share a triad class, which may be of semi-categorical relevance
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': A universe that's recognisable, but everything is distorted and the people have no faces. The merging of 3rds and 6ths removes one of the primary forms of textural expressiveness in 12, leaving it disconcertingly emotionally flat.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Apparently it's pretty cool.  '''Bill Sethares:''' ''If God Had Intended Us To Play In Ten Tones Per Octave, Then He Would Have Given Us Ten Fingers''
 ; [[11edo]]
@@ Line 114: / Line 124: @@
 : '''Mike''':
 :: 1. Amazing and totally underrated EDO. It supports excellent 4:7:9:11 chords, as well as 4:7:9:11:15:17:19 chords if you're into that thing. Was once thought to be mostly "atonal" for lacking 3/2, but revealed as a low-numbered EDO of prime interest after the Great Subgroup Revolution Of 2011. Giving you decently accurate tetradic harmony for only 11 notes is almost a miracle. Supports [[machine]] temperament, of which the 2 2 1 2 2 2 MOS is of interest for being stable and sounding like a "warped diatonic." Example here that loosely uses it:
-:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhPjsCoMy-Q. Also supports orgone[7], or 2 2 1 2 1 2 1, which is another "warped diatonic" scale. An example of this:
+:: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhPjsCoMy-Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhPjsCoMy-Q]. Also supports orgone[7], or 2 2 1 2 1 2 1, which is another "warped diatonic" scale. An example of this:
-:: http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliaexperiments/sets/tonal-study-in-orgone-temperament/. Also, much like 8-EDO supports the excellent and underrated 2.9/7.5/3 version of sensi temperament.
+:: [https://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliaexperiments/sets/tonal-study-in-orgone-temperament/ http://soundcloud.com/mikebattagliaexperiments/sets/tonal-study-in-orgone-temperament/]. Also, much like 8-EDO supports the excellent and underrated 2.9/7.5/3 version of sensi temperament.
 :: 2. has machine[6] which is a key warped diatonic scale, and orgone[7]. I'd say 11-EDO is way up there in terms of key things to learn for categories because it's small, has great 4:7:9:11 triads, and has warped diatonic scales.
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': It can almost pass for 12 as long as you only play one note at at time, but more than that and it's limitations become painfully clear.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' One of the only ones I'll probably never explore out of sheer fear
 ; [[12edo]]
@@ Line 125: / Line 136: @@
 : '''Inthar''': Not a bad tuning, all things considered.
 : '''Keenan''': Excellent 5-limit temperament with strong hints of 7. The ideal tuning for the wildly popular [[dominant]] temperament. Also [[augmented]] and [[diminished]]. Currently used as a basis for adaptive tuning, as well as directly, by a huge number of "non-xenharmonic" ensembles.
-: '''Mike''': If all things are considered, and any personal boredom with it is ignored, it's a really frickin good temperament. For its size, it supports remarkable 5-limit harmony, has a debatably passable representation of the 7-limit, and can sort of "hint" at 11, as in the string of ascending dom9#11 chords in the beginning of this Art Tatum video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPeks0H3_s. Our theory places "12-EDO" and "meantone" as one example of an infinite series of musical tunings, all of which are of potential interest - however, care must be taken to not unfairly diminish 12-EDO's value in a mathematical sense because one may simply be bored with it. Many feel that everything in it "has already been done"; I have a different perspective as a jazz musician in NYC, where people do new and interesting things with 12-EDO every time I go to Smalls'. (Be more creative!!)
+: '''Mike''': If all things are considered, and any personal boredom with it is ignored, it's a really frickin good temperament. For its size, it supports remarkable 5-limit harmony, has a debatably passable representation of the 7-limit, and can sort of "hint" at 11, as in the string of ascending dom9#11 chords in the beginning of this Art Tatum video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPeks0H3_s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaPeks0H3_s]. Our theory places "12-EDO" and "meantone" as one example of an infinite series of musical tunings, all of which are of potential interest - however, care must be taken to not unfairly diminish 12-EDO's value in a mathematical sense because one may simply be bored with it. Many feel that everything in it "has already been done"; I have a different perspective as a jazz musician in NYC, where people do new and interesting things with 12-EDO every time I go to Smalls'. (Be more creative!!)
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': The more I study it, the more it's flaws and limitations irritate me.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': For all the hate others have for 12edo, I have love and respect. I believe we microtonal musicians take it for granted, and while it's not the best edo to be the western standard regarding sheer possibilities in this tuning, it's very far from the worst choice imo, and I'd personally choose it as western culture's standard tuning over most all other edos of a similar size.
 ; [[13edo]]
@@ Line 139: / Line 151: @@
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': All the various kinds of 9thno5 chords work, and have interesting new flavours compared to their 12edo equivalents. Well worth getting to grips with the cluster based harmony needed to make it sound nice.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' The other one I'll probably never explore out of sheer fear
 ; [[14edo]]
@@ Line 150: / Line 163: @@
 :: 2. has the whole "kloog" slash "kleeg" thing going on, and also has touch tone noises as intervals for you to try and categorize
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': The opposite of 10 - recognisable, but distorted so there's three types of 3rd and 6th with exaggerated expressive qualities. Even though it's best intervals aren't as in tune as 12, it sounds much less dissonant when playing all the notes at once, so it seems a natural home for Schoenberg influenced serialism and extended chords.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Need I say anything? It used to be my bae, and will forever have a special spot in my heart.
 ; [[15edo]]
@@ Line 159: / Line 173: @@
 : '''Mike''': has 5-limit harmony plus a 5 note circle of 3/2's, which is crazy in terms of "tonality," which would seem to be peripherally relevant
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Like 14, not as good at simple harmonies as 12, but some glorious extended blackwood chords that combine more notes than you can in 12 and still sound good. Porcupine looks simpler, but I actually find it more of a struggle than blackwood to use.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Blackwood[10] is like the coolest scale ever, change my mind (you won't)
 ; [[16edo]]
@@ Line 168: / Line 183: @@
 : '''Mike''': is notable for being the first EDO (to me) where the 3 step interval can sound like "a step" instead of "a leap." Example is machine: 3 3 1 3 3 3. Much like 3 3 1 3 3 3 1 in 17-EDO, machine[6] in 16-EDO has L/s = 3/1 but the 3-step interval still sounds like "a second." It sounds like 16-EDO is an "enharmonic" scale for machine[11], which I (sort of) perceive as the true "background" for 331333, much like I perceive 19-EDO as an enharmonic underpinning for meantone[12] or whatever.
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': 12's evil twin. Scales are recognisable but inverted and everything but the mellowest of timbres or simplest of harmonies sounds horrible once you start combining notes.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' I want Easley Blackwood's "16 notes: Andantino" to play at my funeral
 ; [[17edo]]
@@ Line 177: / Line 193: @@
 : '''Mike''': superpyth machine blah blah
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Interestingly alien, but with good 2nd's, 4ths & 5ths to retreat too when you're not sure what to do next.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' Some people like that one guy who wrote a paper argue this is better for diatonic melody & counterpoint, but at what cost? The answer is concordant triadic harmony lol
 ; [[18edo]]
@@ Line 186: / Line 203: @@
 : '''Mike''': has a really useful 10 note scale called "supersharp" which is 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 2 1, which has major/minor/diminished chords which are a bit sharp
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': A universe in monochrome, but with extended dynamic range. There's enough complexity in other areas to keep it interesting, but I'm still aware in the back of my mind that something's missing.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' I'll go out on a limb and guess this is one of the least used and least liked edos. I have nothing against it, but I have nothing for it.
 ; [[19edo]]
@@ Line 195: / Line 213: @@
 : '''Mike''': needs to be in there for the above reason about enharmonic-sized EDOs in general, but also because learning to differentiate things like #4's and b5's is easy and attainable and a good "first step." I hear A# and Bb as different notes in 19-EDO now - the first fits into things like E lydian, the second fits into things like E diminished, etc. Then you can experiment with melodic diesis movements
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': The more I study it, the more I love how elegantly everything fits together, how you can use standard notation, but things that are equivalent in 12 actually have proper meaning here, how familiar tunes are transferable and recognisable but the emphasis on intervals is subtly shifted to making minor chords and melodies sound more stable and consonant than major ones. It still has it's limitations, power chord based heavy rock in particular suffers from the weaker 5ths, but just works so much better than 12 in general.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime:''' I'd rate it 10/10 if it didn't have such a shite approximation of 7/4, but 9.5/10 is still quite good. Sunsrise by SAGA and the cover Sunsrise v2 on YouTube have made my brain explode in the best way possible.
 ; [[20edo]]
@@ Line 202: / Line 221: @@
 : '''Keenan''': More-complicated version of [[blackwood]], not much else. Instead of [5edo interval], minor, major, [5edo interval] it now goes [5edo interval], minor, neutral, major, [5edo interval]. Big deal. I'd choose 15 over 20 any day because it has porcupine.
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Looking at the math on paper, it should be possible to create pleasant music in this one, but nothing I've heard has actually managed it yet.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Once edos get this big, they no longer offer me the inherent "woah I'm a small number edo" appeal, and that's when having other redeemable qualities must kick in. I'm yet to hear of such qualities with this edo.
 ; [[21edo]]
@@ Line 210: / Line 230: @@
 : '''Keenan''': First usable (sub-optimal) [[whitewood]] EDO, not much else.
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Like 14 but moreso. Dramatically exaggerated harmonic expressiveness, shares the relatively nice major 3rd with 12 rather than the horrible tritone, and the highest edo that works with standard notation without having to add more letters or learn new kinds of accidental. Not as good as 19 for familiar sounding intervals, but still really rather nice.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Once edos get this big, they no longer offer me the inherent "woah I'm a small number edo" appeal, and that's when having other redeemable qualities must kick in. I'm yet to hear of such qualities with this edo, but I've heard inthar compose very pretty music in it. All that said, it's a multiple of 7edo so I should be a fan of it.
 ; [[22edo]]
@@ Line 219: / Line 240: @@
 : '''Mike''': in keeping with the above note about enharmonic EDOs, can be thought of as an enharmonic scale for something like porcupine, so that you can perceive a 15-note background but have better intonation - the same way you can perceive a 12-note background in 19 (meantone[12]) but have better intonation than 12. You can do the same with orwell and perceive an orwell[13]-note background, but have much better intonation for orwell than 13-EDO itself. There's other stuff too. Also has superpyth[7] which is good for revealing the diatonic scale in a different intonational context.
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Like 24, only the new harmonic options are actually more in tune than the familiar ones rather than less. Better than 12 but still not quite as good as 19 overall.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Gleam was the first microtonal song for me. I have no words to describe it other than ear candy of the future, peering into an alternate world with music better than our own. That aside, having concordant major and minor triads and a usable 11/8 approximation is really nice, but lacking a really concordant and non-septimal diatonic scale is a deal-breaker for me regarding me composing in it & exploring it.
 ; [[23edo]]
@@ Line 228: / Line 250: @@
 : '''Mike''': same as the above but with mavila and 16-EDO and some other stuff too.
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Not enough songs using this to get a proper opinion. Definitely one of the tougher ones to get to grips with.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Thanks, I hate it. Eikositriophobia exists for a reason.
 ; [[24edo]]
@@ Line 237: / Line 260: @@
 : '''Mike''': allows you to take a sound you all intuitively know (the blues) and make it "real" and "tangible" and manipulate it to see what comes of it
 : '''Yourmusic Productions''': Double the complexity, but considerably less than double the number of good-sounding combinations. A lot of extra work for little extra return.
+: '''Carmen14edo/Bragtime''': Many people in the microtonal community write it off due to the notoriousness of "quarter tone music", but I'm particularly attracted to the new 12edo-polyphony key changes possible in this tuning.
 ; [[25edo]]