User:BudjarnLambeth/Some tunings for Japanese scales: Difference between revisions
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; In ''my personal subjective opinion'' | ; In ''my personal subjective opinion:'' | ||
The '''best-sounding''' tunings for most Japanese scales are: | The '''best-sounding''' tunings for most Japanese scales are: | ||
| Line 17: | Line 17: | ||
Tunings that sound '''bad''' to me include: | Tunings that sound '''bad''' to me include: | ||
* The most obvious 5-limit [[just intonation]] interpetations of the scales: these have too many [[wolf interval|wolf]] intervals-between-intervals | * The most obvious 5-limit [[just intonation]] interpetations of the scales: these have too many [[wolf interval|wolf]] intervals-between-intervals | ||
* [[Pythagorean]] and similar tunings (e.g. [[schismic]], [[garibaldi]], [[cassandra]], [[andromeda]], [[65edo]], [[53edo]], [[41edo]] - these have the same wolf problems as the just interpretations | * [[Pythagorean]] and similar tunings (e.g. [[schismic]], [[garibaldi]], [[cassandra]], [[andromeda]], [[65edo]], [[53edo]], [[41edo]]) - these have the same wolf problems as the just interpretations | ||
* Any meantone tuning with fifths flatter than 2/9-comma (e.g. [[31edo]], quarter-comma, [[50edo]], 1/3-comma) - these include some tritones which are a bit sharper than [[10/7]], and to my ears those just sound unbearably bitter | * Any meantone tuning with fifths flatter than 2/9-comma (e.g. [[31edo]], quarter-comma, [[50edo]], 1/3-comma) - these include some tritones which are a bit sharper than [[10/7]], and to my ears those just sound unbearably bitter | ||
* Any [[leapday]] tuning close to [[46edo]] - the 10/7 tritone gets too sharp which makes the whole scale too bitter, like in the flatter meantone tunings | * Any [[leapday]] tuning close to [[46edo]] - the 10/7 tritone gets too sharp which makes the whole scale too bitter, like in the flatter meantone tunings | ||
; For all these tunings, any note will work as the tonic but my favourite is | ; For all these tunings, any note will work as the tonic but my favourite is somewhere between 100 and 120 Hz (G#, Ab, A, A# or Bb). | ||
; For all these tunings, any timbre will work but I especially like the Scale Workshop "piano" aperiodic timbre with a percussive (medium) envelope and moderate reverb, as to me it sounds like a koto. | ; For all these tunings, any timbre will work but I especially like the [[Scale Workshop]] "piano" aperiodic timbre with a percussive (medium) envelope and moderate reverb, as to me it sounds like a {{w|koto}}. | ||
'''The remainder of this page''' will list various Japanese scales in various tunings that I consider "good" for these scales. | '''The remainder of this page''' will list various Japanese scales in various tunings that I consider "good" for these scales. | ||
I list all of the scales (including rotations) for | I list all of the scales here (including rotations) for some tunings... For others I only list 3 of the scales, but you can derive the rest from rotating those 3. | ||
For | |||
== Japanese scales in 12edo == | == Japanese scales in 12edo == | ||
| Line 114: | Line 112: | ||
; Minor pentatonic step pattern | ; Minor pentatonic step pattern | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
3\12 | 3\12 | ||
| Line 123: | Line 121: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Major pentatonic or | Major pentatonic or Ryosen | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
2\12 | 2\12 | ||
| Line 164: | Line 162: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
23\91 | 23\91 | ||
| Line 194: | Line 192: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
20\79 | 20\79 | ||
| Line 224: | Line 222: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
17\67 | 17\67 | ||
| Line 313: | Line 311: | ||
; Major pentatonic step pattern | ; Major pentatonic step pattern | ||
Major pentatonic or | Major pentatonic or Ryosen | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
9\55 | 9\55 | ||
| Line 322: | Line 320: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
14\55 | 14\55 | ||
| Line 420: | Line 418: | ||
; Major pentatonic step pattern | ; Major pentatonic step pattern | ||
Major pentatonic or | Major pentatonic or Ryosen | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
16\98 | 16\98 | ||
| Line 429: | Line 427: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
25\98 | 25\98 | ||
| Line 527: | Line 525: | ||
; Major pentatonic step pattern | ; Major pentatonic step pattern | ||
Major pentatonic or | Major pentatonic or Ryosen | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
7\43 | 7\43 | ||
| Line 536: | Line 534: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
11\43 | 11\43 | ||
| Line 575: | Line 573: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
19\74 | 19\74 | ||
| Line 605: | Line 603: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
27\105 | 27\105 | ||
| Line 638: | Line 636: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
17\70 | 17\70 | ||
| Line 668: | Line 666: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
24\99 | 24\99 | ||
| Line 757: | Line 755: | ||
; Minor pentatonic step pattern | ; Minor pentatonic step pattern | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
7\29 | 7\29 | ||
| Line 766: | Line 764: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Major pentatonic or | Major pentatonic or Ryosen | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
5\29 | 5\29 | ||
| Line 805: | Line 803: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
25\104 | 25\104 | ||
| Line 835: | Line 833: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
18\75 | 18\75 | ||
| Line 926: | Line 924: | ||
; Major pentatonic step pattern | ; Major pentatonic step pattern | ||
Major pentatonic or | Major pentatonic or Ryosen | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
36/32 | 36/32 | ||
| Line 935: | Line 933: | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
Minor pentatonic or | Minor pentatonic or Min'yo | ||
<pre> | <pre> | ||
38/32 | 38/32 | ||
| Line 952: | Line 950: | ||
64/32 | 64/32 | ||
</pre> | </pre> | ||
== Music examples == | |||
; [[Budjarn Lambeth]] | |||
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISO3tO0MjLM ''Improvisation in a mode of han-kumoi (43edo, ~1/5-comma meantone)]'' (2025) | |||
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJkC1RKI3kg ''Improvisation in a mode of hirajoshi (43edo, ~1/5-comma meantone)]'' (2025) | |||
== To-do == | == To-do == | ||
| Line 957: | Line 960: | ||
* Over-3, -5, -7, -11, -13, -17, -19 & -23 primodality | * Over-3, -5, -7, -11, -13, -17, -19 & -23 primodality | ||
** Semiprime modes of the above | ** Semiprime modes of the above | ||
* Compton in [[84edo]] & [[96edo]] | * [[Compton]][36] in [[60edo]], [[72edo]], [[84edo]] & [[96edo]] | ||
* [[User:BudjarnLambeth/Substitute harmonic|Narrowed compton]] tunings | * [[User:BudjarnLambeth/Substitute harmonic|Narrowed compton]] tunings | ||
* [[ | * [[Ripple]] tunings | ||
* [[ | * [[Passion]] tunings | ||
* [[Pajara]] | * [[Injera]] | ||
* [[ | * [[Diaschismic]] | ||
* [[Srutal]] | |||
* [[Pajara]] | |||
* [[Fog]] | |||
* [[Misty]] | |||
* [[August]] | |||
* [[Unlit]] | |||
* [[Undim]] | |||
* [[Bidia]] | |||
* [[Hexe]] | |||
== See also == | |||
* [[User:BudjarnLambeth/Trippy warped hirajoshi scale]] | |||
* [[37edo#Scales]] (has strange versions of hirajoshi and akebono I) | |||
{{ | {{Navbox scale gallery}} | ||
[[Category:5-tone scales]] | [[Category:5-tone scales]] | ||
Latest revision as of 12:26, 1 May 2026
- In my personal subjective opinion:
The best-sounding tunings for most Japanese scales are:
- Meantone temperament in 55edo
- 2/11-comma meantone
- Meantone temperament in 98edo
- Meantone temperament in 43edo
- 1/5-comma meantone
Other tunings that aren't quite as good as those, but still very good, for most Japanese scales are:
- Any meantone tuning with a fifth between 697 ¢ (5/22-comma) and 701 ¢ (1/20-comma) - this includes 74, 43, 55, 67, 79, 91 and 12edo
- Any undecental tuning - instead of 5-limit, this maps the scales as highly accurate no-5s, 13-limit scales, with no wolf intervals
- Any leapday tuning close to 29edo - instead of 5-limit, this maps the scales as highly accurate no-5s, 13-limit scales, with no wolf intervals
- Over-2 primodality
Tunings that sound bad to me include:
- The most obvious 5-limit just intonation interpetations of the scales: these have too many wolf intervals-between-intervals
- Pythagorean and similar tunings (e.g. schismic, garibaldi, cassandra, andromeda, 65edo, 53edo, 41edo) - these have the same wolf problems as the just interpretations
- Any meantone tuning with fifths flatter than 2/9-comma (e.g. 31edo, quarter-comma, 50edo, 1/3-comma) - these include some tritones which are a bit sharper than 10/7, and to my ears those just sound unbearably bitter
- Any leapday tuning close to 46edo - the 10/7 tritone gets too sharp which makes the whole scale too bitter, like in the flatter meantone tunings
- For all these tunings, any note will work as the tonic but my favourite is somewhere between 100 and 120 Hz (G#, Ab, A, A# or Bb).
- For all these tunings, any timbre will work but I especially like the Scale Workshop "piano" aperiodic timbre with a percussive (medium) envelope and moderate reverb, as to me it sounds like a koto.
The remainder of this page will list various Japanese scales in various tunings that I consider "good" for these scales.
I list all of the scales here (including rotations) for some tunings... For others I only list 3 of the scales, but you can derive the rest from rotating those 3.
Japanese scales in 12edo
- Hirajoshi step pattern
Akebono II
1\12 5\12 7\12 8\12 12\12
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
2\12 3\12 7\12 8\12 12\12
Hirajoshi Mode III or Kumoi II
4\12 5\12 9\12 11\12 12\12
Hirajoshi Mode V or Kumoi IV
4\12 6\12 7\12 11\12 12\12
Iwato
1\12 5\12 6\12 10\12 12\12
- Kokin-Joshi step pattern
Akebono I
2\12 3\12 7\12 9\12 12\12
Han-Kumoi
2\12 5\12 7\12 8\12 12\12
Kokin-Joshi
1\12 5\12 7\12 10\12 12\12
- Minor pentatonic step pattern
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
3\12 5\12 7\12 10\12 12\12
Major pentatonic or Ryosen
2\12 4\12 7\12 9\12 12\12
Ritusen
2\12 5\12 7\12 9\12 12\12
Japanese scales in meantone tunings
91edo (~1/7-comma)
The others can be derived by rotating these.
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
15\91 23\91 53\91 61\91 91\91
Akebono I
15\91 23\91 53\91 68\91 91\91
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
23\91 38\91 53\91 76\91 91\91
79edo
The others can be derived by rotating these.
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
13\79 20\79 46\79 53\79 79\79
Akebono I
13\79 20\79 46\79 59\79 79\79
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
20\79 33\79 46\79 66\79 79\79
67edo (~1/6-comma)
The others can be derived by rotating these.
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
11\67 17\67 39\67 45\67 67\67
Akebono I
11\67 17\67 39\67 50\67 67\67
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
17\67 28\67 39\67 56\67 67\67
55edo
- Hirajoshi step pattern
Akebono II
5\55 23\55 32\55 37\55 55\55
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
9\55 14\55 32\55 37\55 55\55
Hirajoshi Mode III or Kumoi II
18\55 23\55 41\55 50\55 55\55
Hirajoshi Mode V or Kumoi IV
18\55 28\55 32\55 50\55 55\55
Iwato
5\55 23\55 28\55 46\55 55\55
- Kokin-Joshi step pattern
Akebono I
9\55 14\55 32\55 41\55 55\55
Han-Kumoi
9\55 23\55 32\55 37\55 55\55
Kokin-Joshi
5\55 23\55 32\55 46\55 55\55
- Major pentatonic step pattern
Major pentatonic or Ryosen
9\55 18\55 32\55 41\55 55\55
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
14\55 23\55 32\55 46\55 55\55
Ritusen
9\55 23\55 32\55 41\55 55\55
98edo
- Hirajoshi step pattern
Akebono II
9\98 41\98 57\98 66\98 98\98
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
16\98 25\98 57\98 66\98 98\98
Hirajoshi Mode III or Kumoi II
32\98 41\98 73\98 89\98 98\98
Hirajoshi Mode V or Kumoi IV
32\98 50\98 57\98 89\98 98\98
Iwato
9\98 41\98 50\98 82\98 98\98
- Kokin-Joshi step pattern
Akebono I
16\98 25\98 57\98 73\98 98\98
Han-Kumoi
16\98 41\98 57\98 66\98 98\98
Kokin-Joshi
9\98 41\98 57\98 82\98 98\98
- Major pentatonic step pattern
Major pentatonic or Ryosen
16\98 32\98 57\98 73\98 98\98
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
25\98 41\98 57\98 82\98 98\98
Ritusen
16\98 41\98 57\98 73\98 98\98
43edo (~1/5-comma)
- Hirajoshi step pattern
Akebono II
4\43 18\43 25\43 29\43 43\43
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
7\43 11\43 25\43 29\43 43\43
Hirajoshi Mode III or Kumoi II
14\43 18\43 32\43 39\43 43\43
Hirajoshi Mode V or Kumoi IV
14\43 22\43 25\43 39\43 43\43
Iwato
4\43 18\43 22\43 36\43 43\43
- Kokin-Joshi step pattern
Akebono I
7\43 11\43 25\43 32\43 43\43
Han-Kumoi
7\43 18\43 25\43 29\43 43\43
Kokin-Joshi
4\43 18\43 25\43 36\43 43\43
- Major pentatonic step pattern
Major pentatonic or Ryosen
7\43 14\43 25\43 32\43 43\43
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
11\43 18\43 25\43 36\43 43\43
Ritusen
7\43 18\43 25\43 32\43 43\43
74edo (~3/14-comma)
The others can be derived by rotating these.
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
12\74 19\74 43\74 50\74 74\74
Akebono I
12\74 19\74 43\74 55\74 74\74
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
19\74 31\74 43\74 62\74 74\74
105edo (~2/9-comma, ~meantone CTE tuning)
The others can be derived by rotating these.
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
17\105 27\105 61\105 71\105 105\105
Akebono I
17\105 27\105 61\105 78\105 105\105
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
27\105 44\105 61\105 88\105 105\105
Japanese scales in undecental or leapday tunings
70edo
The others can be derived by rotating these.
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
12\70 17\70 41\70 46\70 70\70
Akebono I
12\70 17\70 41\70 53\70 70\70
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
17\70 29\70 41\70 58\70 70\70
99edo
The others can be derived by rotating these.
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
17\99 24\99 58\99 65\99 99\99
Akebono I
17\99 24\99 58\99 75\99 99\99
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
24\99 41\99 58\99 82\99 99\99
29edo
- Hirajoshi step pattern
Akebono II
2\29 12\29 17\29 19\29 29\29
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
5\29 7\29 17\29 19\29 29\29
Hirajoshi Mode III or Kumoi II
10\29 12\29 22\29 27\29 29\29
Hirajoshi Mode V or Kumoi IV
10\29 15\29 17\29 27\29 29\29
Iwato
2\29 12\29 14\29 24\29 29\29
- Kokin-Joshi step pattern
Akebono I
5\29 7\29 17\29 22\29 29\29
Han-Kumoi
5\29 12\29 17\29 19\29 29\29
Kokin-Joshi
2\29 12\29 17\29 24\29 29\29
- Minor pentatonic step pattern
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
7\29 12\29 17\29 24\29 29\29
Major pentatonic or Ryosen
5\29 10\29 17\29 22\29 29\29
Ritusen
5\29 12\29 17\29 22\29 29\29
104edo
The others can be derived by rotating these.
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
18\104 25\104 61\104 68\104 104\104
Akebono I
18\104 25\104 61\104 79\104 104\104
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
25\104 43\104 61\104 86\104 104\104
75edo
The others can be derived by rotating these.
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
13\75 18\75 44\75 49\75 75\75
Akebono I
13\75 18\75 44\75 57\75 75\75
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
18\75 31\75 44\75 62\75 75\75
Japanese scales in primodal JI
Over-2
- Hirajoshi step pattern
Akebono II
34/32 43/32 48/32 51/32 64/32
Hirajoshi or Kata-Kumoi
36/32 38/32 48/32 51/32 64/32
Hirajoshi Mode III or Kumoi II
40/32 43/32 54/32 60/32 64/32
Hirajoshi Mode V or Kumoi IV
40/32 45/32 48/32 60/32 64/32
Iwato
68/64 86/64 91/64 114/64 128/64
- Kokin-Joshi step pattern
Akebono I
36/32 38/32 48/32 54/32 64/32
Han-Kumoi
36/32 43/32 48/32 51/32 64/32
Kokin-Joshi
34/32 43/32 48/32 57/32 64/32
- Major pentatonic step pattern
Major pentatonic or Ryosen
36/32 40/32 48/32 54/32 64/32
Minor pentatonic or Min'yo
38/32 43/32 48/32 57/32 64/32
Ritusen
36/32 43/32 48/32 54/32 64/32
Music examples
- Improvisation in a mode of han-kumoi (43edo, ~1/5-comma meantone) (2025)
- Improvisation in a mode of hirajoshi (43edo, ~1/5-comma meantone) (2025)
To-do
Tunings that I have yet to try properly and plan to try in future:
- Over-3, -5, -7, -11, -13, -17, -19 & -23 primodality
- Semiprime modes of the above
- Compton[36] in 60edo, 72edo, 84edo & 96edo
- Narrowed compton tunings
- Ripple tunings
- Passion tunings
- Injera
- Diaschismic
- Srutal
- Pajara
- Fog
- Misty
- August
- Unlit
- Undim
- Bidia
- Hexe
See also
- User:BudjarnLambeth/Trippy warped hirajoshi scale
- 37edo#Scales (has strange versions of hirajoshi and akebono I)
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