Tetracot family: Difference between revisions

(5 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)

Line 23:

[[Minimax tuning]]:

* [[5-odd-limit]]: ~10/9 = {{monzo| -1/9 0 1/9 }}

: [[~~Eigenmonzo~~ basis|unchanged-interval (eigenmonzo) basis]]: 2.5

: [[eigenmonzo basis|unchanged-interval (eigenmonzo) basis]]: 2.5

Line 30:

=== Overview to extensions ===

==== Subgroup extensions ====

Since the generator in all reasonable tunings is between 10/9 and [[11/10]], it is natural to extend tetracot to the [[11-limit]] by tempering out (10/9)/(11/10) = [[100/99]]. This gives the [[2.3.5.11 subgroup|2.3.5.11-subgroup]] version of tetracot, dispensing with 7. For this, [[41edo]] can be used as a tuning.

Since [[16/13]] is shy of (10/9)2 by just [[325/324]], it is likewise natural to extend our winning streak by adding this to the list of commas. This gives us [[2.3.5.11.13 subgroup|2.3.5.11.13-subgroup]] tetracot, which tempers out 100/99, [[144/143]] and [[243/242]], with the [[S-expression]]-based comma list {[[243/242|S9/S11]], [[100/99|S10]], [[144/143|S12]]}.

==== Full 7-limit extensions ====

The second comma of the comma list defines which 7-limit family member we are looking at. [[875/864]], the keema, gives monkey. [[225/224]] gives bunya. [[64/63]] gives modus. [[126/125]] gives wollemia. These all use the same generators as tetracot.

[[245/243]] gives octacot, which splits the generator in halves. [[3125/3087]] gives dodecacot, which splits the generator in thirds. [[50/49]] gives weasel, which splits the period in halves.

~~==== Monkey and bunya ====~~

Monkey tempers out the keema. The keema, 875/864, is the amount by which three just minor thirds fall short of 7/4, and tells us the ~7/4 of monkey is reached by three minor thirds in succession. It can be described as the {{nowrap| 34 & 41 }} temperament. [[41edo]] is an excellent tuning for monkey, and has the effect of making monkey identical to bunya with the same tuning.

Bunya adds 225/224 to the list of commas and may be described as the {{nowrap| 34d & 41 }} temperament. 41edo can again be used as a tuning, in which case it is the same as monkey. However an excellent alternative is 141/26 as a generator, giving just ~7's and an improved value for ~5, at the cost of a slightly sharper, but still less than a cent sharp, fifth. Octave stretching, if employed, also serves to distinguish bunya from monkey, as its octaves should be stretched considerably less.

Since the generator in all cases is between 10/9 and 11/10, it is natural to extend these temperaments to the 11-limit by tempering out (10/9)/(11/10) = [[100/99]]. This gives 11-limit monkey and 11-limit bunya. Again, 41edo can be used as a tuning, making the two identical, which is also the case if we turn to the 2.3.5.11 subgroup temperament, dispensing with 7. However, 11-limit bunya, like 7-limit bunya, profits a little from a slightly sharper fifth, such as the 141/26 generator supplies, or even sharper yet, as for instance by the val {{val| 355 563 823 997 1230 }}, with a 52/355 generator.

Since [[16/13]] is shy of (10/9)2 by just [[325/324]], it is likewise natural to extend our winning streak with these temperaments by adding this to the list of commas. This gives us 13-limit monkey and 13-limit bunya. Once again, 41edo is recommended as a tuning for monkey, while bunya can with advantage tune the fifth sharper: 17\116 as a generator with a fifth a cent and a half sharp or 11\75 with a fifth two cents sharp.

=== 2.3.5.11 subgroup ===

~~As discussed above, tetracot works well for the 2.3.5.11.13 subgroup, in which it tempers out 100/99, 144/143 and 243/242.~~

~~The [[S-expression]]-based comma list of this temperament is {[[243/242|S9/S11]], [[100/99|S10]]}.~~

Subgroup: 2.3.5.11

Line 76:

Line 69:

Badness (Sintel): 0.489

~~=== 2.3.5.13 subgroup ===~~

~~Subgroup: 2.3.5.13~~

~~Comma list: 325/324, 512/507~~

~~Subgroup-val mapping: {{mapping| 1 1 1 4 | 0 4 9 -2 }}~~

~~Optimal tunings:~~

* WE: ~2 = 1198.8502{{c}}, ~10/9 = 176.2195{{c}}

* CWE: ~2 = 1200.0000{{c}}, ~10/9 = 176.2975{{c}}

~~{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 7, 20c, 27, 34, 245bff, 279bfff }}~~

~~Badness (Sintel): 0.551~~

== Monkey ==

Monkey tempers out the [[keema]]. The keema, 875/864, is the amount by which three [[6/5|just minor thirds]] fall short of [[7/4]], and tells us the ~7/4 of monkey is reached by three such minor thirds in succession. It can be described as the {{nowrap| 34 & 41 }} temperament. [[41edo]] is an excellent tuning for monkey, and has the effect of making monkey identical to [[#Bunya|bunya]] with the same tuning.

[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7

Line 173:

Line 153:

== Bunya ==

Bunya adds [[225/224]] to the list of commas and may be described as the {{nowrap| 34d & 41 }} temperament. [[41edo]] can again be used as a tuning, in which case it is the same as [[#Monkey|monkey]]. However, bunya profits a little from a slightly sharper fifth. An excellent generator is 141/26, giving just ~7's and an improved value for ~5, at the cost of a slightly sharper but still less-than-a-cent-sharp fifth, or even sharper yet: 17\116 with a fifth a cent and a half sharp, or 11\75 with a fifth two cents sharp. [[Octave stretching]], if employed, also serves to distinguish bunya from monkey, as its octaves should be stretched considerably less.

[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7

Line 253:

Line 235:

Modus ~~was named by~~ [[~~Mike Battaglia~~]] ~~in 2012 for its fantastic modmos structures<ref>~~[~~https:~~/~~/yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup~~.~~github.io/tuning/topicId_102416.html~~#~~102467 Yahoo! Tuning Group~~ | ~~''Guaranteed meantone successor''~~]~~</ref>~~.

Modus tempers out [[64/63]] as well as [[4375/4374]], and may be described as the {{nowrap| 27 & 34d }} temperament. While less accurate than [[#Monkey|monkey]] or [[#Bunya|bunya]], it is nonetheless very useful because it is simpler and because of the harmonic puns it possesses. [[27edo]], [[34edo]] and [[61edo]] can all be used as tunings.

[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7

Line 395:

Line 377:

== Wollemia ==

Wollemia tempers out [[126/125]] as well as [[2240/2187]], and may be described as the {{nowrap| 27 & 34 }} temperament. [[27edo]] may be recommended as a tuning, in which case it is identical to modus with the same tuning.

[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7

Line 475:

Line 459:

Octacot ~~cuts~~ the ~~Gordian knot of deciding~~ between the monkey and bunya mappings for 7 by cutting the generator in half ~~and splitting the difference~~. It adds [[245/243]] to the normal comma list, and also tempers out [[2401/2400]]. It may also be described as {{nowrap| 41 & 68 }}. [[68edo]] or [[109edo]] can be used as tunings, as can (5/2)1/18, which gives just major thirds. Another tuning is [[150edo]], which has a generator, 11\150, of exactly 88 cents. This relates octacot to the [[88cET]] non-octave temperament, which like [[Carlos Alpha]] arguably makes more sense viewed as part of a rank-2 temperament with octaves rather than rank-1 without them.

Octacot splits the difference between the [[#Monkey|monkey]] and [[#Bunya|bunya]] mappings for 7 by cutting the generator in half. It adds [[245/243]] to the normal comma list, and also tempers out [[2401/2400]]. It may also be described as {{nowrap| 41 & 68 }}. [[68edo]] or [[109edo]] can be used as tunings, as can (5/2)1/18, which gives just major thirds. Another tuning is [[150edo]], which has a generator, 11\150, of exactly 88 cents. This relates octacot to the [[88cET]] non-octave temperament, which like [[Carlos Alpha]] arguably makes more sense viewed as part of a rank-2 temperament with octaves rather than rank-1 without them.

Once again and for the same reasons, it is natural to add 100/99 and 325/324 to the list of commas. Generators of 3\41, 8\109 and 11\150 (88 cents) are all good choices for the 7, 11 and 13 limits.

Line 807:

Line 791:

=== 13-limit ===

The canonical mapping finds 13/8 at +15 generators rather than using the regular tetracot mapping, in order to find [[15/13]] as being half of [[4/3]].

Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13

Line 853:

Line 839:

=== Weasly ===

The alternative extension uses the same mapping of 13 as in tetracot, though many other intervals of 13 take more generators to reach as a result.

Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13

Line 868:

Line 856:

==== 17-limit ====

Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13

Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17

Comma list: 50/49, 85/84, 99/98, 144/143, 243/242

Line 883:

Line 871:

==== 19-limit ====

Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13

Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19

Comma list: 50/49, 85/84, 99/98, 144/143, 190/189, 243/242

Line 893:

Line 881:

* CWE: ~7/5 = 600.000{{c}}, ~10/9 = 175.593{{c}}

Badness (Sintel): 1.48

== Other subgroup extensions ==

=== Tetracot (2.3.5.13) ===

Subgroup: 2.3.5.13

Comma list: 325/324, 512/507

Subgroup-val mapping: {{mapping| 1 1 1 4 | 0 4 9 -2 }}

Optimal tunings:

* WE: ~2 = 1198.8502{{c}}, ~10/9 = 176.2195{{c}}

* CWE: ~2 = 1200.0000{{c}}, ~10/9 = 176.2975{{c}}

{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 7, 20c, 27, 34, 245bff, 279bfff }}

Badness (Sintel): 0.551

=== Devisemi (2.3.5.19) ===

[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.19

Line 906:

Line 909:

: mapping generators: ~2, ~20/19

Line 919:

Line 921:

[[Badness]] (Sintel): 1.30

==== 2.3.5.7.19 ~~subgroup =~~===

=== Devisemi (2.3.5.7.19) ===

Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.19

@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 [[Minimax tuning]]:
 * [[5-odd-limit]]: ~10/9 = {{monzo| -1/9 0 1/9 }}
-: [[Eigenmonzo basis|unchanged-interval (eigenmonzo) basis]]: 2.5
+: [[eigenmonzo basis|unchanged-interval (eigenmonzo) basis]]: 2.5
 {{Optimal ET sequence|legend=1| 7, 20c, 27, 34, 75, 109 }}
@@ Line 30: / Line 30: @@
 === Overview to extensions ===
+==== Subgroup extensions ====
+Since the generator in all reasonable tunings is between 10/9 and [[11/10]], it is natural to extend tetracot to the [[11-limit]] by tempering out (10/9)/(11/10) = [[100/99]]. This gives the [[2.3.5.11 subgroup|2.3.5.11-subgroup]] version of tetracot, dispensing with 7. For this, [[41edo]] can be used as a tuning.
+Since [[16/13]] is shy of (10/9)<sup>2</sup> by just [[325/324]], it is likewise natural to extend our winning streak by adding this to the list of commas. This gives us [[2.3.5.11.13 subgroup|2.3.5.11.13-subgroup]] tetracot, which tempers out 100/99, [[144/143]] and [[243/242]], with the [[S-expression]]-based comma list {[[243/242|S9/S11]], [[100/99|S10]], [[144/143|S12]]}.
+==== Full 7-limit extensions ====
 The second comma of the comma list defines which 7-limit family member we are looking at. [[875/864]], the keema, gives monkey. [[225/224]] gives bunya. [[64/63]] gives modus. [[126/125]] gives wollemia. These all use the same generators as tetracot.
 [[245/243]] gives octacot, which splits the generator in halves. [[3125/3087]] gives dodecacot, which splits the generator in thirds. [[50/49]] gives weasel, which splits the period in halves.
-==== Monkey and bunya ====
-Monkey tempers out the keema. The keema, 875/864, is the amount by which three just minor thirds fall short of 7/4, and tells us the ~7/4 of monkey is reached by three minor thirds in succession. It can be described as the {{nowrap| 34 & 41 }} temperament. [[41edo]] is an excellent tuning for monkey, and has the effect of making monkey identical to bunya with the same tuning.
-Bunya adds 225/224 to the list of commas and may be described as the {{nowrap| 34d & 41 }} temperament. 41edo can again be used as a tuning, in which case it is the same as monkey. However an excellent alternative is 14<sup>1/26</sup> as a generator, giving just ~7's and an improved value for ~5, at the cost of a slightly sharper, but still less than a cent sharp, fifth. Octave stretching, if employed, also serves to distinguish bunya from monkey, as its octaves should be stretched considerably less.
-Since the generator in all cases is between 10/9 and 11/10, it is natural to extend these temperaments to the 11-limit by tempering out (10/9)/(11/10) = [[100/99]]. This gives 11-limit monkey and 11-limit bunya. Again, 41edo can be used as a tuning, making the two identical, which is also the case if we turn to the 2.3.5.11 subgroup temperament, dispensing with 7. However, 11-limit bunya, like 7-limit bunya, profits a little from a slightly sharper fifth, such as the 14<sup>1/26</sup> generator supplies, or even sharper yet, as for instance by the val {{val| 355 563 823 997 1230 }}, with a 52/355 generator.
-Since [[16/13]] is shy of (10/9)<sup>2</sup> by just [[325/324]], it is likewise natural to extend our winning streak with these temperaments by adding this to the list of commas. This gives us 13-limit monkey and 13-limit bunya. Once again, 41edo is recommended as a tuning for monkey, while bunya can with advantage tune the fifth sharper: 17\116 as a generator with a fifth a cent and a half sharp or 11\75 with a fifth two cents sharp.
 === 2.3.5.11 subgroup ===
-As discussed above, tetracot works well for the 2.3.5.11.13 subgroup, in which it tempers out 100/99, 144/143 and 243/242.
-The [[S-expression]]-based comma list of this temperament is {[[243/242|S9/S11]], [[100/99|S10]]}.
 Subgroup: 2.3.5.11
@@ Line 76: / Line 69: @@
 Badness (Sintel): 0.489
-=== 2.3.5.13 subgroup ===
-Subgroup: 2.3.5.13
-Comma list: 325/324, 512/507
-Subgroup-val mapping: {{mapping| 1 1 1 4 | 0 4 9 -2 }}
-Optimal tunings:
-* WE: ~2 = 1198.8502{{c}}, ~10/9 = 176.2195{{c}}
-* CWE: ~2 = 1200.0000{{c}}, ~10/9 = 176.2975{{c}}
-{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 7, 20c, 27, 34, 245bff, 279bfff }}
-Badness (Sintel): 0.551
 == Monkey ==
 {{Main| Monkey }}
+Monkey tempers out the [[keema]]. The keema, 875/864, is the amount by which three [[6/5|just minor thirds]] fall short of [[7/4]], and tells us the ~7/4 of monkey is reached by three such minor thirds in succession. It can be described as the {{nowrap| 34 & 41 }} temperament. [[41edo]] is an excellent tuning for monkey, and has the effect of making monkey identical to [[#Bunya|bunya]] with the same tuning.
 [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7
@@ Line 173: / Line 153: @@
 == Bunya ==
 {{Main| Bunya }}
+Bunya adds [[225/224]] to the list of commas and may be described as the {{nowrap| 34d & 41 }} temperament. [[41edo]] can again be used as a tuning, in which case it is the same as [[#Monkey|monkey]]. However, bunya profits a little from a slightly sharper fifth. An excellent generator is 14<sup>1/26</sup>, giving just ~7's and an improved value for ~5, at the cost of a slightly sharper but still less-than-a-cent-sharp fifth, or even sharper yet: 17\116 with a fifth a cent and a half sharp, or 11\75 with a fifth two cents sharp. [[Octave stretching]], if employed, also serves to distinguish bunya from monkey, as its octaves should be stretched considerably less.
 [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7
@@ Line 253: / Line 235: @@
 {{Main| Modus }}
-Modus was named by [[Mike Battaglia]] in 2012 for its fantastic modmos structures<ref>[https://yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup.github.io/tuning/topicId_102416.html#102467 Yahoo! Tuning Group | ''Guaranteed meantone successor'']</ref>.
+Modus tempers out [[64/63]] as well as [[4375/4374]], and may be described as the {{nowrap| 27 & 34d }} temperament. While less accurate than [[#Monkey|monkey]] or [[#Bunya|bunya]], it is nonetheless very useful because it is simpler and because of the harmonic puns it possesses. [[27edo]], [[34edo]] and [[61edo]] can all be used as tunings.
 [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7
@@ Line 395: / Line 377: @@
 == Wollemia ==
 {{Main| Wollemia }}
+Wollemia tempers out [[126/125]] as well as [[2240/2187]], and may be described as the {{nowrap| 27 & 34 }} temperament. [[27edo]] may be recommended as a tuning, in which case it is identical to modus with the same tuning.
 [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7
@@ Line 475: / Line 459: @@
 {{See also| Chords of octacot }}
-Octacot cuts the Gordian knot of deciding between the monkey and bunya mappings for 7 by cutting the generator in half and splitting the difference. It adds [[245/243]] to the normal comma list, and also tempers out [[2401/2400]]. It may also be described as {{nowrap| 41 & 68 }}. [[68edo]] or [[109edo]] can be used as tunings, as can (5/2)<sup>1/18</sup>, which gives just major thirds. Another tuning is [[150edo]], which has a generator, 11\150, of exactly 88 cents. This relates octacot to the [[88cET]] non-octave temperament, which like [[Carlos Alpha]] arguably makes more sense viewed as part of a rank-2 temperament with octaves rather than rank-1 without them.
+Octacot splits the difference between the [[#Monkey|monkey]] and [[#Bunya|bunya]] mappings for 7 by cutting the generator in half. It adds [[245/243]] to the normal comma list, and also tempers out [[2401/2400]]. It may also be described as {{nowrap| 41 & 68 }}. [[68edo]] or [[109edo]] can be used as tunings, as can (5/2)<sup>1/18</sup>, which gives just major thirds. Another tuning is [[150edo]], which has a generator, 11\150, of exactly 88 cents. This relates octacot to the [[88cET]] non-octave temperament, which like [[Carlos Alpha]] arguably makes more sense viewed as part of a rank-2 temperament with octaves rather than rank-1 without them.
 Once again and for the same reasons, it is natural to add 100/99 and 325/324 to the list of commas. Generators of 3\41, 8\109 and 11\150 (88 cents) are all good choices for the 7, 11 and 13 limits.
@@ Line 807: / Line 791: @@
 === 13-limit ===
+The canonical mapping finds 13/8 at +15 generators rather than using the regular tetracot mapping, in order to find [[15/13]] as being half of [[4/3]].
 Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13
@@ Line 853: / Line 839: @@
 === Weasly ===
 {{Todo|review|unify precision}}
+The alternative extension uses the same mapping of 13 as in tetracot, though many other intervals of 13 take more generators to reach as a result.
 Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13
@@ Line 868: / Line 856: @@
 ==== 17-limit ====
-Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13
+Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17
 Comma list: 50/49, 85/84, 99/98, 144/143, 243/242
@@ Line 883: / Line 871: @@
 ==== 19-limit ====
-Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13
+Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19
 Comma list: 50/49, 85/84, 99/98, 144/143, 190/189, 243/242
@@ Line 893: / Line 881: @@
 * CWE: ~7/5 = 600.000{{c}}, ~10/9 = 175.593{{c}}
-{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 14c, 20cdehh, 34dh, 48 }}
+{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 14c, 34dh, 48 }}
 Badness (Sintel): 1.48
 == Other subgroup extensions ==
+=== Tetracot (2.3.5.13) ===
+Subgroup: 2.3.5.13
+Comma list: 325/324, 512/507
+Subgroup-val mapping: {{mapping| 1 1 1 4 | 0 4 9 -2 }}
+Optimal tunings:
+* WE: ~2 = 1198.8502{{c}}, ~10/9 = 176.2195{{c}}
+* CWE: ~2 = 1200.0000{{c}}, ~10/9 = 176.2975{{c}}
+{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 7, 20c, 27, 34, 245bff, 279bfff }}
+Badness (Sintel): 0.551
 === Devisemi (2.3.5.19) ===
 [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.19
@@ Line 906: / Line 909: @@
 {{Mapping|legend=3| 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 3 | 0 8 18 0 0 0 0 17 }}
 : mapping generators: ~2, ~20/19
@@ Line 919: / Line 921: @@
 [[Badness]] (Sintel): 1.30
-==== 2.3.5.7.19 subgroup ====
+=== Devisemi (2.3.5.7.19) ===
 Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.19