User talk:Xenllium

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Hi Xenllium, glad to see you using color notation so much! If you have any questions about it, or suggestions for improving it, please don't hesitate to contact me. BTW I recently corrected a few names involving 23 both as a prime and as an exponent. --TallKite (talk) 21:32, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi Xenllium, lots of good edits from you recently. Just curious, are you on our Facebook group? (What is your real name again?) - ( Mike Battaglia (talk) 01:10, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

No, I am not on any Facebook group. -- Xenllium 03:32, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Reduce comma tables on EDO pages

Please have a look at Xenharmonic Wiki: Things to do #Comma tables in EDO_pages. Thanks --Xenwolf (talk) 09:09, 11 January 2021 (UTC)


Hey, Xenllium, I think you'll be happy to know that Pentacontatritonic has finally found a home in the Mercator family. --Aura (talk) 17:21, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

I must mention that we need to talk in order to finalize a name for the 5-limit temperament that gives rise to both Pentacontatritonic and Cartography- at present, the name for this 5-limit temperament is "Schismerc". --Aura (talk) 18:02, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for filling out that data on Joliet Temperament. I've been interested in 17-limit daughter temperaments for Joliet, Cartography, and Pentacontatritonic, though to be fair, I think we need to find really good mappings before we lay down the possibilities- I'll be discussing this matter on Discord if you're interested. --Aura (talk) 14:16, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Maybe triwellisma instead of triwellsma?

Triwellisma would sound more consistent with orwellisma.

Btw 13-limit sengagen should really be 49f & 50. -- FloraC (talk) 05:06, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

The sengagen temperament can be described as 49&50 temperament, even in 13-limit. It corresponds to "Sengagen 13-limit TOP-RMS" of List of temperaments in Scala.

13-limit 49(patent)&50
Comma list: 351/350, 540/539, 975/968, 1344/1331
Mapping: [<1 1 2 2 3 4|<0 29 16 40 23 -15|]
TE generator: (1200.0391962005, 24.1817281258)
Vals: 49, 50, 99e, 149e
Badness: 0.053531

13-limit 49f&50
Comma list: 144/143, 196/195, 364/363, 625/624
Mapping: [<1 1 2 2 3 3|,<0 29 16 40 23 35|]
TE generator: (1199.1432364156, 24.2164661912)
Vals: 49f, 50, 99ef
Badness: 0.037416

-- Xenllium 10:57, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Alright if Scala has had the data documented. FloraC (talk) 13:19, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

How to link to sections

Maybe you are not aware that it's also possible to directly link article sections. This feature is especially useful if the link text suggests you get moved to somewhere specific (with a title you expected). I, personally, feel very confused about being "thrown" onto the beginning of a huge article. The same specificity can be applied to redirects. Please have a look at the following list (corresponding redirects are given in italic in parentheses):

Hope this helps. --Xenwolf (talk) 10:55, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

The temperament names you propose

I'm very interested to read something about the background of these proposals: Are they just your ideas? What are the (linguistic) origins of the names? Why does a specific name fit to a given temperament? Thanks in advance for your answers! --Xenwolf (talk) 06:52, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

  • Icositritonic (46&161) - which has a period of 1/23 octave
  • Pentacontatritonic (53&265) - which has a period of 1/53 octave
  • Tertiathirds (121&270) - which splits major third of 5/4 into three generators
  • Tertiaschis (94&159) - which splits fourth of 4/3 into three generators
  • Trident (53&229) - which has a slightly sharp fifth (about 702.2 cents)
  • Trillium (53&441) - which has a slightly sharp fifth but more accurate than that of trident (about 702.03 cents)
  • Pseudotrillium (53&388) - less accurate than trillium
  • Tritricot (159&282) - which has a period of 1/3 octave and tempers out the tricot comma
  • Decic (10&50) - which has a period of 1/10 octave
  • Cloudtone (5&50) - which tempers out cloudy comma (16875/16384) and meantone comma (81/80)
  • Hemipental (125&130) - which has a period of 1/5 octave and a generator of 31/2 (hemi-twelfth)
  • Sengasec (10&55) - which tempers out the qintosec comma and the sengic comma (686/675)
  • Qinto (10&75) - from qintosec
  • Monzism (53&559) - which tempers out monzisma
  • Houborizic (53&113) - strongly related to the houboriz tuning
  • Houbor (7d&53) - as the same reason as the houborizic temperament
  • Gamity (46&113) - which tempers out the gamelisma and the amity comma
  • Sabric (53&190) - strongly related to the Sabra2 tuning
  • Quadrawell (31&212) - which splits orwell supermajor sixth (about 928 cents) into four
  • Rainwell (31&265) - which tempers out the rainy comma and the semicomma (orson comma)
  • Sengage (49f&50) - from sengagen

-- Xenllium 22:37, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Are houboriz tuning, sabra2 tuning, etc. related to algebraic generators? Where do I get all the info about those ? FloraC (talk) 06:13, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes. Houborizic temperament (53&113) and sabric temperament (53&190) have POTE generators that closely approximate houboriz tuning and sabra2 tuning respectively. I get information of houboriz tuning and sabra2 tuning from List of temperaments in Scala.

-- Xenllium 10:58, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Links to temperaments via redirect

Please don't turn those into "direct" links, it's likely that we split temperament collections some day. And besides, it's generally a bad idea to let links and their labels diverge unnecessarily. Thanks for your understanding. --Xenwolf (talk) 05:49, 4 May 2021 (UTC)


I have a comment to make. 131072/130977 is a very important comma, so its name deserves some distinctiveness. I think "ennealimmial comma" sounds too similar to ennealimmal comma / ennealimma.

How about "enneatina"? It's in reference to the fact that Sagittal notation takes 131072/130977 as the default interval represented by nine tinas. Or maybe we could find something more creative. FloraC (talk) 07:26, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. -- Xenllium 21:22, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Parakleismic extensions

Hello again. I saw your nice addition of 99e & 118. Not sure if you're fond of the names. I got a good reason to name it paralytic, by analogy to catalytic (53e & 72, also tempering out 441/440). Paraklein could be reserved for one of the 13-limit extensions. Deal?

I should mention that months ago I talked about gentsemiparakleismic on the FB group, and eventually Graham Breed added it to the temperament finder. That's why it's there. I reckon nobody likes the name cuz it's too long, and I must take full blame for that silly suggestion anyway. I plan to open pull requests to the temperament finder to make a change soon, like contracting it to gemipara. Maybe you have something more to add?

I don't wanna be interfering too much. I feel it's a matter of collaboration in the community, so I just make every point I have to make. FloraC (talk) 14:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Sure. I'll revise the temperament name for 99e&118 into paralytic, and rename paraklein for 19e&118. -- Xenllium 21:53, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Naming temperaments or commas

... is a great thing. So I want to thank you here for your contributions (please note that I don't have a channel to other platforms like Facebook or Discord, so I can't guarantee that this appreciation of mine will be shared by the entire Xenharmonic community).
(1) Concerning the temperaments, I'd like to know more about their relation to the (val & val) notation that is missing in most of the family pages. Is this a unique clear 1-to-1 relationship? I ask you because it seems to me that orientation in the world of temperaments and especially the terminology connected with it does not cause you any problems, which unfortunately I cannot say about myself.
(2) Well, and then there's another thing that's been occupying my mind for a while: It seems a bit strange to me that meanwhile every new name is provided with the reference back to its originator, which is unusual at least in this wiki so far. The wiki software itself offers a wealth of functions to track user activity and page development. See for example all your contributions, (which also can be restricted to (main), or User), maybe this is also good to know for other reasons ...
Thanks so far --Xenwolf (talk) 16:55, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Why is the 36 & 72 temperament called decades?

Decade means ten. Isn't that a little bit confusing? FloraC (talk) 10:31, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

I named 36&72 temperament "decades" for the following reasons - the period is 1/36 octave, and there are 36 decades per a year (12 months × 3 decades).
That's only remotely relatable. Ten days isn't the most common meaning of decade, and "there are 36 times ten days per year" is a very rough equation unless in some ancient calendars. I strongly recommend giving it a less confusing name. FloraC (talk) 05:19, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
For what it's worth, the term "decade" actually means "ten years" in English. Just saying... --Aura (talk) 11:53, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

An alternative extension

Hello Xenllium. I'm not sure if some of your proposed temperament extensions are the best, so I'd like to hear your opinions and see what we can do about that. For one, the canonical 13-limit mitonic extension ore, as you proposed, is 46 & 125, whereas I feel that 46 & 125f is a better choice. By tempering out 325/324, it identifies prime 13 with simply 2 minor tones. More info here:

Not related but I came up with an even better name for 131072/130977. How about olympia? It has do to with Sagittal's Olympian precision level, where diacritic marks of minas are used. One mina represents 4096/4095, two 2080/2079 and three 131072/130977. So that the corresponding temperament would be olympic. FloraC (talk) 06:43, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Sure. I named goldmine for 46&125f temperament because 79EDO also supports it. This name comes from Gold, the 79th element. -- Xenllium 11:22, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Good to hear. FloraC (talk) 12:16, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Replacing "edo" with "EDO"

Several users (@SupahstarSaga, @Fredg999, and I) would like to report that we don't enjoy this change. We have disussed about this lately and if you have particular reasons plz join in Xenharmonic Wiki talk:Conventions #EDO vs. edo (and MOS vs. mos). FloraC (talk) 12:17, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

"Differences between distributionally-even scales and smaller EDOs"

So you insist adding them back. Do you know what they mean? DE is apparently synonymous to MOS, but which MOS? And which mode? Why would one want to know the difference in cent values between a certain EDO and every smaller EDOs? FloraC (talk) 11:49, 7 November 2021 (UTC)

It is the difference between the step interval of smaller EDOs and the nearest intervals on a certain EDO. Xenllium 12:03, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
Here the DE is a misnomer for ME isn't it? And should be measured in symmetric mode only? FloraC (talk) 12:48, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
DE means distributional evenness of a scale. Distributionally-even scales include MOS scales, which is a scale in which every interval except for the period comes in two sizes. So, interval differences between distributionally-even scales and smaller EDOs may be measured in symmetric mode. Xenllium 10:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
That doesn't answer my questions. I suspect what are used to measure the difference are the maximally even scales, which is only a subset of DE scales. FloraC (talk) 12:45, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Cat main

I replaced the "main article" note you had written on Category:Golden ratio with {{Cat main}}. I thought I'd let you know in case you didn't know about this template yet (which I added to the wiki only a few months ago), and I encourage you to use it in cases like this (for hopefully obvious reasons). If you have any questions or issues with this template, I'm open for discussion. --Fredg999 (talk) 04:59, 24 January 2022 (UTC)