Talk:TAMNAMS

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Mosoctave?

If you're going with x-step names (which I don't really see catching on due to notation being ordinal, but that's a different subject), why still use the octave name (8-ave)? The ditave is available, very descriptive, and independent of the "8th". --Ayceman (talk) 15:15, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

What do you mean by "notation being ordinal"? Music notation is visual and doesn't have a direct effect on that language. We used "octave" because the idea of octave as 2/1 is so ingrained that it shouldn't cause any confusion. "Ditave" is harder to say and doesn't clarify anything despite being conceptually nicer. --SupahstarSaga (talk)
Notation being ordinal means that notation is based on the idea that the root is the "1st", whether it's 1, A, or α', which is why the second is called the second, and so on. Intervals are relative and can be offset, but the pattern is still there. This is very ingrained, so I don't expect it to change much even in microtonal music. Still, that's a different subject.
I was mostly thinking that, since it's supposed to be a clearely separate system, ditave would not imply 8-step, much like how a nine note system might have a decave/mosdecave instead of an octave. --Ayceman (talk) 17:52, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
I'm not too concerned about scale degree names personally, though we could write up something for that in the future. There's nothing inherently connecting the letter A to the number 0, and in Diamond-mos notation notes don't start from A anyway. It's true that ordinal naming is ingrained, but it's arithmetically really confusing, and it's important for interval arithmetic to be easy when working in an unfamiliar system. Since all the intervals are different anyway, I think it's totally worth it to make the switch.
There's a lot of precedent for using "octave" to refer to 2/1 in a non-diatonic context. For me, "octave" is just the word for 2/1 and doesn't usually have a specifically diatonic meaning. If the word were "8th" instead, it would be more confusing, but the "ave" suffix distinguishes it from other diatonic interval classes. --SupahstarSaga (talk)
Additionally, the "ave" or "tave" suffix has been redefined in the community to refer to a JI equave, most commonly with "tritave". Because of that, using "decave" to refer to 2/1 in a non-tone mos would be confusing. --SupahstarSaga (talk)
I have actually used nonave, decave, and dodecave, but it might be because in my native language the equivalence is immediately obvious. Of course, only for edos, as everything else just has a descriptive universal term (tritave/tertratave/sesquitave/etc). Ditave could be used to provide neutrality, so it might be worth mentioning it as a possibility. Ayceman (talk) 20:00, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Names "Dipentic" and "Antidipentic"

I wondered that "pentic" for 2L 3s and "antipentic" for 3L 2s but "dipentic" for 6L 4s and "antidipentic" for 4L 6s. I would like to rename of 10-tone MOS scales 4L 6s "dipentic" (as analogy to "pentic") and 6L 4s "antidipentic" (as analogy to "antipentic"). Deal? --Xenllium (talk) 22:11, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

MOS pattern Current name New name Notes
4L 6s Antidipentic Dipentic Analogy to "pentic" (2L 3s scale)
6L 4s Dipentic Antidipentic Analogy to "antipentic" (3L 2s scale)
It indeed looks like an error that slipped through when these names were decided. I'll echo the question in the Discord server to make sure I'm not missing something. --Fredg999 (talk) 03:46, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Well, I forgot to pass the question onto Discord, but that doesn't matter anymore now, haha. Thanks Inthar for the edits. --Fredg999 (talk) 03:21, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Replace paucitonic with collapsed?

I brought this up on discord some time ago, and people seemed to like the idea. More self-explanatory. Similar to equalized, makes both edge cases end in -ed. --TallKite (talk) 20:01, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

I support this idea. --Godtone (talk) 20:12, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
I also support this idea. --Fredg999 (talk) 22:23, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
I fourth. FloraC (talk) 23:27, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
Aye. Inthar (talk) 00:22, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Done --TallKite (talk) 01:37, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Hard and soft in French, German, etc.

In many languages, major/minor is called "hard/soft" as in dur, moll, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_signature_names_and_translations. Thus a german speaker couldn't talk about a soft major scale without causing confusion. I think the solution is to find another metaphor for use in these languages only, perhaps angular/rounded. Are there native speakers among us with some suggestions? TallKite (talk) 00:30, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I suggested mellow/sparkly in place of soft/hard some time ago, maybe that would be better? --Godtone (talk) 04:17, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Sorry for being that late. The Dur/Moll pair in German is sometimes associated with hard/soft, but most non-musicians associate tell with „fröhlich“/„traurig“ (“happy”/“sad”). But this applies only for harmonies and for the key pieces are written in, and only for classic tuning. The terms for tweaked intervals would rather be scharf (sharp) and stumpf (blunt). For example, it has been handed down that Bach wanted all thirds to be sharply tuned. Today, piano tuners still speak of sharp thirds and dull fifths. I hope this helps. --Xenwolf (talk) 20:27, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
We could also specify what kind of hard/soft we're talking about. Is it psychological (don't be so hard/soft on yourself), physical firmness or something else. That way it wouldn't be "dur" in French but "ferme" or something. --Frostburn (talk) 14:28, 1 September 2022 (UTC)