Major third: Difference between revisions
→In regular temperaments: Add sensi for 9/7 |
Rework the intro to address the abstract approach |
||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
A '''major third (M3)''' is an interval that is | A '''major third (M3)''' in the [[5L 2s|diatonic scale]] is an interval that spans two scale steps with the major (wider) quality. It is generated by stacking 4 fifths [[octave reduction|octave reduced]], and depending on the specific tuning, it ranges from 343 to 480 [[cent]]s ([[7edo|2\7]] to [[5edo|2\5]]). | ||
In [[just intonation]], an interval may be classified as a major third if it is reasonably mapped to 2\7 and [[24edo|8\24]] (precisely two steps of the diatonic scale and four steps of the chromatic scale). The use of 24edo's 8\24 as the mapping criteria here rather than [[12edo]]'s 4\12 better captures the characteristics of many intervals in the [[11-limit|11-]] and [[13-limit]]. | |||
As a concrete [[interval region]], it is typically near 400 [[cents]] in size, distinct from the [[minor third]] of roughly 300 cents and the [[neutral third]] of roughly 350 cents. A rough tuning range for the major third is about 370 to 440 cents according to [[Margo Schulter]]'s theory of interval regions. ''Major third'' in this sense refers both to the ~350-450 cent range as a whole, and to a specific subdivision within it (~370–415 cents) as opposed to supermajor thirds; major thirds sharp of this are often called "supermajor thirds". | |||
== In just intonation == | == In just intonation == | ||
=== By prime limit === | === By prime limit === | ||
3-limit intervals in the range of major thirds include the '''Pythagorean major third''' of [[81/64]], about 408 cents in size, which corresponds to the | 3-limit intervals in the range of major thirds include the '''Pythagorean major third''' of [[81/64]], about 408 cents in size, which corresponds to the mos-based interval category of the diatonic major third and is generated by [[stacking]] four just perfect fifths of [[3/2]], and the '''Pythagorean diminished fourth''' of [[8192/6561]], which is flat of 81/64 by one Pythagorean comma, and is about 384 cents in size. | ||
Much [[ | Much [[odd limit|simpler]] major thirds exist in higher [[prime limit|limits]], however, for example: | ||
* The 5-limit '''classical major third''' is a ratio of [[5/4]], and is about 386 cents. | * The 5-limit '''classical major third''' is a ratio of [[5/4]], and is about 386 cents. | ||
| Line 78: | Line 77: | ||
|} | |} | ||
== In | == In edos == | ||
The following table lists the best tuning of 5/4 and 9/7, as well as other major thirds if present, in various significant [[ | The following table lists the best tuning of 5/4 and 9/7, as well as other major thirds if present, in various significant [[edos]]. | ||
{| class="wikitable" | {| class="wikitable" | ||
|+ | |+ | ||
Revision as of 13:40, 26 February 2025
A major third (M3) in the diatonic scale is an interval that spans two scale steps with the major (wider) quality. It is generated by stacking 4 fifths octave reduced, and depending on the specific tuning, it ranges from 343 to 480 cents (2\7 to 2\5).
In just intonation, an interval may be classified as a major third if it is reasonably mapped to 2\7 and 8\24 (precisely two steps of the diatonic scale and four steps of the chromatic scale). The use of 24edo's 8\24 as the mapping criteria here rather than 12edo's 4\12 better captures the characteristics of many intervals in the 11- and 13-limit.
As a concrete interval region, it is typically near 400 cents in size, distinct from the minor third of roughly 300 cents and the neutral third of roughly 350 cents. A rough tuning range for the major third is about 370 to 440 cents according to Margo Schulter's theory of interval regions. Major third in this sense refers both to the ~350-450 cent range as a whole, and to a specific subdivision within it (~370–415 cents) as opposed to supermajor thirds; major thirds sharp of this are often called "supermajor thirds".
In just intonation
By prime limit
3-limit intervals in the range of major thirds include the Pythagorean major third of 81/64, about 408 cents in size, which corresponds to the mos-based interval category of the diatonic major third and is generated by stacking four just perfect fifths of 3/2, and the Pythagorean diminished fourth of 8192/6561, which is flat of 81/64 by one Pythagorean comma, and is about 384 cents in size.
Much simpler major thirds exist in higher limits, however, for example:
- The 5-limit classical major third is a ratio of 5/4, and is about 386 cents.
- The 7-limit supermajor third is a ratio of 9/7, and is about 435 cents.
- The 11-limit neogothic major third is a ratio of 14/11, and is about 418 cents.
- The 13-limit ultramajor third is a ratio of 13/10, and is about 454 cents.
- There is also a 13-limit submajor third, which is a ratio of 26/21, and is about 370 cents.
- The 17-limit submajor third is a ratio of 21/17, and is about 366 cents.
By delta
| Delta 1 | Cents | Delta 2 | Cents | Delta 3 | Cents | Delta 4 | Cents | Delta 5 | Cents |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5/4 | 386c | 9/7 | 435c | 13/10 | 454c | 19/15 | 409c | 22/17 | 446c |
| 14/11 | 418c | 21/17 | 366c | 23/18 | 424c | ||||
| 24/19 | 404c | ||||||||
| 26/21 | 370c |
In edos
The following table lists the best tuning of 5/4 and 9/7, as well as other major thirds if present, in various significant edos.
| EDO | 5/4 | 9/7 | Other major thirds |
|---|---|---|---|
| 12 | 400c | ||
| 15 | 400c | ** | |
| 16 | 375c | 450c | |
| 17 | *** | 424c | |
| 19 | 379c | 442c | |
| 22 | 382c | 436c | |
| 24 | 400c | 450c | |
| 25 | 384c | 432c | |
| 26 | 369c | 415c | |
| 27 | 400c | 444c | |
| 29 | 372c | 455c | 414c ≈ 81/64, 14/11 |
| 31 | 388c | 426c | |
| 34 | 388c | 424c | 459c ≈ 13/10 |
| 41 | 381c | 439c | 410c ≈ 81/64 |
| 53 | 385c | 430c | 362c ≈ 21/17, 408c ≈ 81/64, 452c ≈ 13/10 |
** These edos have an approximation to 9/7, but it's sharper than 460 cents, not really a major third.
*** These edos have an approximation to 5/4, but it's flatter than 360 cents, not really a major third.
In regular temperaments
The two simplest major 3rd ratios are 5/4 and 9/7. The following notable temperaments are generated by them:
Temperaments that use 5/4 as a generator
- Magic, which generates 3/2 by stacking five 5/4s (octave-reduced).
- Augmented, which splits the octave into three equal parts, each representing 5/4.
- Father, a very inaccurate temperament which equates 4/3 and 5/4 as a single "fourth-third" interval
- Dicot, a somewhat inaccurate temperament which equates 5/4 and 6/5, tempering out the chromatic semitone that usually separates them
Temperaments that use 9/7 as a generator
| View • Talk • EditInterval classification | |
|---|---|
| Interval regions | |
| Unison and octave | Unison • Comma and diesis • Octave |
| Seconds | Minor second • Neutral second • Major second |
| Thirds | Minor third • Neutral third • Major third |
| Fourths and fifths | Perfect fourth • Superfourth • Tritone • Subfifth • Perfect fifth |
| Sixths | Minor sixth • Neutral sixth • Major sixth |
| Sevenths | Minor seventh • Neutral seventh • Major seventh |
| Interseptimal intervals | Interseptimal 2nd-3rd • Interseptimal 3rd-4th • Interseptimal 5th-6th • Interseptimal 6th-7th |
| Interval qualities | |
| Diatonic qualities | Diminished • Minor • Perfect • Major • Augmented |
| Tuning ranges | Neutral (interval quality) • Submajor and supraminor • Pental major and minor • Novamajor and novaminor • Neogothic major and minor • Supermajor and subminor • Ultramajor and inframinor |