Marvel: Difference between revisions

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== Tunings ==

The marvel extension [[hecate]] has the no-17's [[19-limit]] as its subgroup, and ~~[[undecimal~~ marvel~~]] (aka unimarv)~~, the extension chosen by [[Gene Ward Smith]], ~~can be extended to~~ the 13-limit. They merge in the rank-2 temperament [[catakleismic]] (which can be conceptualized as accepting both rank 3 marvel structures simultaneously), ~~for which the smallest~~ reasonable edo ~~tuning~~ for the full no-17's 19-limit ~~is [[53edo]] followed by [[72edo]]~~, though in 53edo the 11 and 19 are a little off and in 72edo the 13 and 19 are a little off instead; 72edo is positioned better as a full [[17-limit]] marvel system while 53edo is positioned better as a (potentially no-11's) [[13-limit]] marvel system. If we focus on the 11-limit of undecimal marvel (discarding the mapping of 13), [[31edo]] and [[41edo]] are the smallest to clearly succeed, though many accept 41edo's mapping of [[~]][[13/8]] to the neutral sixth and some accept that mapping for 31edo as contextually usable too.

The marvel extension [[hecate]] has the no-17's [[19-limit]] as its subgroup, and tridecimal marvel, the extension chosen by [[Gene Ward Smith]], is in the 13-limit. They merge in the rank-2 temperament [[catakleismic]], which can be conceptualized as accepting both rank-3 marvel structures simultaneously. One such tuning is excellently given by [[125edo]]. If we are looking for a small edo tuning instead, [[53edo]] and [[72edo]] are also reasonable edo tunings for the full no-17's 19-limit catakleismic, though in 53edo the 11 and 19 are a little off and in 72edo the 13 and 19 are a little off instead; 72edo is positioned better as a full [[17-limit]] marvel system while 53edo is positioned better as a (potentially no-11's) [[13-limit]] marvel system. If we focus on the 11-limit of undecimal marvel (discarding the mapping of 13), [[31edo]] and [[41edo]] are the smallest to clearly succeed, though many accept 41edo's mapping of [[~]][[13/8]] to the neutral sixth and some accept that mapping for 31edo as contextually usable too.

[[53edo]] and [[84edo]] are the smallest [[edo]]s to tune the supermajor second [[~]][[8/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[256/225]]), the subminor third [[~]][[7/6]] sharp (towards [[~]][[75/64]]), the supermajor third [[~]][[9/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[32/25]]) and the tritone [[~]][[7/5]] sharp (towards [[~]][[45/32]]), such that every [[7-limit]] [[9-odd-limit]] interval is tuned between itself and the [[5-limit]] interpretation it's separated from by [[225/224]], though even if you allow overtempering, the only smaller edo to satisfy all of these constraints is [[12edo]], which is a trivial tuning of it (meaning it is very high-damage owing to conflating many intervals so that the lattice is oversimplified). [[TE]], [[CTE]], [[CEE]] and [[CWE]] as well as the idea of tempering between pairs of 5- and 7-limit intervals separated by 225/224 all implicate these tuning tendencies of these 7-limit [[LCJI]] intervals for optimized 7-limit marvel tunings. Interestingly, [[72edo]] fails some of these constraints ~~and~~ is ~~less optimized for others~~, in the ~~sense that 53edo tunes~~ closer to the more complex [[5-limit]] interpretations ~~(which arguably need more tuning fidelity), which is something not taken into account by these tuning optimization schemes (so~~ that ~~they generally tune closer to [[LCJI]]). By contrast, [[84edo]], an overlooked superset of [[12edo]], has~~ the ~~benefit~~ of ~~being a high-limit performer in odd-limits 23 through 51 (inclusive). In fact, 53edo and 84edo are the '''only''' edos~~ to ~~satisfy all~~ these constraints consistently when we include not overtempering to overshoot the 5-limit interval, and if we also require [[28/27]] to be sharp and [[25/24]] to be flat, 53edo is the only one, making it a uniquely optimized 7-limit ~~marvel tuning; as far as the 9-odd-limit is concerned, the only intervals which are more than 25% off in 53edo are~~ [[~~7/5]] and [[10/7]~~]], ~~so that it is almost [[consistent to distance]] 2, and many more complex intervals~~ of ~~the 7-limit are~~ [[~~consistent~~]] ~~as well (barring the stacking of prime 7 more than once~~, ~~so that 5 * 7 = 35~~ is ~~fine but not 7 * 7 = 49, which causes inconsistencies in the 7-limited [[tonality diamond]])~~.

[[53edo]] and [[84edo]] are the smallest [[edo]]s to tune the supermajor second [[~]][[8/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[256/225]]), the subminor third [[~]][[7/6]] sharp (towards [[~]][[75/64]]), the supermajor third [[~]][[9/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[32/25]]) and the tritone [[~]][[7/5]] sharp (towards [[~]][[45/32]]), such that every [[7-limit]] [[9-odd-limit]] interval is tuned between itself and the [[5-limit]] interpretation it is separated from by [[225/224]], though even if you allow overtempering, the only smaller edo to satisfy all of these constraints is [[12edo]], which is a trivial tuning of it (meaning it is very high-damage owing to conflating many intervals so that the lattice is oversimplified). [[TE]], [[CTE]], [[CEE]] and [[CWE]] as well as the idea of tempering between pairs of 5- and 7-limit intervals separated by 225/224 all implicate these tuning tendencies of these 7-limit [[LCJI]] intervals for optimized 7-limit marvel tunings. Interestingly, [[72edo]] fails some of these constraints, whereas 53edo though satisfying these constraints is obviously undertempered, tuning the intervals closer to the more complex [[5-limit]] interpretations despite that the very point of marvel is to use these intervals for 7-limit consonances. [[84edo]], another superset of [[12edo]], is an interesting edo to look at.

=== Tuning spectrum ===

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 == Tunings ==
-The marvel extension [[hecate]] has the no-17's [[19-limit]] as its subgroup, and [[undecimal marvel]] (aka unimarv), the extension chosen by [[Gene Ward Smith]], can be extended to the 13-limit. They merge in the rank-2 temperament [[catakleismic]] (which can be conceptualized as accepting both rank 3 marvel structures simultaneously), for which the smallest reasonable edo tuning for the full no-17's 19-limit is [[53edo]] followed by [[72edo]], though in 53edo the 11 and 19 are a little off and in 72edo the 13 and 19 are a little off instead; 72edo is positioned better as a full [[17-limit]] marvel system while 53edo is positioned better as a (potentially no-11's) [[13-limit]] marvel system. If we focus on the 11-limit of undecimal marvel (discarding the mapping of 13), [[31edo]] and [[41edo]] are the smallest to clearly succeed, though many accept 41edo's mapping of [[~]][[13/8]] to the neutral sixth and some accept that mapping for 31edo as contextually usable too.
+The marvel extension [[hecate]] has the no-17's [[19-limit]] as its subgroup, and tridecimal marvel, the extension chosen by [[Gene Ward Smith]], is in the 13-limit. They merge in the rank-2 temperament [[catakleismic]], which can be conceptualized as accepting both rank-3 marvel structures simultaneously. One such tuning is excellently given by [[125edo]]. If we are looking for a small edo tuning instead, [[53edo]] and [[72edo]] are also reasonable edo tunings for the full no-17's 19-limit catakleismic, though in 53edo the 11 and 19 are a little off and in 72edo the 13 and 19 are a little off instead; 72edo is positioned better as a full [[17-limit]] marvel system while 53edo is positioned better as a (potentially no-11's) [[13-limit]] marvel system. If we focus on the 11-limit of undecimal marvel (discarding the mapping of 13), [[31edo]] and [[41edo]] are the smallest to clearly succeed, though many accept 41edo's mapping of [[~]][[13/8]] to the neutral sixth and some accept that mapping for 31edo as contextually usable too.
-[[53edo]] and [[84edo]] are the smallest [[edo]]s to tune the supermajor second [[~]][[8/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[256/225]]), the subminor third [[~]][[7/6]] sharp (towards [[~]][[75/64]]), the supermajor third [[~]][[9/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[32/25]]) and the tritone [[~]][[7/5]] sharp (towards [[~]][[45/32]]), such that every [[7-limit]] [[9-odd-limit]] interval is tuned between itself and the [[5-limit]] interpretation it's separated from by [[225/224]], though even if you allow overtempering, the only smaller edo to satisfy all of these constraints is [[12edo]], which is a trivial tuning of it (meaning it is very high-damage owing to conflating many intervals so that the lattice is oversimplified). [[TE]], [[CTE]], [[CEE]] and [[CWE]] as well as the idea of tempering between pairs of 5- and 7-limit intervals separated by 225/224 all implicate these tuning tendencies of these 7-limit [[LCJI]] intervals for optimized 7-limit marvel tunings. Interestingly, [[72edo]] fails some of these constraints and is less optimized for others, in the sense that 53edo tunes closer to the more complex [[5-limit]] interpretations (which arguably need more tuning fidelity), which is something not taken into account by these tuning optimization schemes (so that they generally tune closer to [[LCJI]]). By contrast, [[84edo]], an overlooked superset of [[12edo]], has the benefit of being a high-limit performer in odd-limits 23 through 51 (inclusive). In fact, 53edo and 84edo are the '''only''' edos to satisfy all these constraints consistently when we include not overtempering to overshoot the 5-limit interval, and if we also require [[28/27]] to be sharp and [[25/24]] to be flat, 53edo is the only one, making it a uniquely optimized 7-limit marvel tuning; as far as the 9-odd-limit is concerned, the only intervals which are more than 25% off in 53edo are [[7/5]] and [[10/7]]], so that it is almost [[consistent to distance]] 2, and many more complex intervals of the 7-limit are [[consistent]] as well (barring the stacking of prime 7 more than once, so that 5 * 7 = 35 is fine but not 7 * 7 = 49, which causes inconsistencies in the 7-limited [[tonality diamond]]).
+[[53edo]] and [[84edo]] are the smallest [[edo]]s to tune the supermajor second [[~]][[8/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[256/225]]), the subminor third [[~]][[7/6]] sharp (towards [[~]][[75/64]]), the supermajor third [[~]][[9/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[32/25]]) and the tritone [[~]][[7/5]] sharp (towards [[~]][[45/32]]), such that every [[7-limit]] [[9-odd-limit]] interval is tuned between itself and the [[5-limit]] interpretation it is separated from by [[225/224]], though even if you allow overtempering, the only smaller edo to satisfy all of these constraints is [[12edo]], which is a trivial tuning of it (meaning it is very high-damage owing to conflating many intervals so that the lattice is oversimplified). [[TE]], [[CTE]], [[CEE]] and [[CWE]] as well as the idea of tempering between pairs of 5- and 7-limit intervals separated by 225/224 all implicate these tuning tendencies of these 7-limit [[LCJI]] intervals for optimized 7-limit marvel tunings. Interestingly, [[72edo]] fails some of these constraints, whereas 53edo though satisfying these constraints is obviously undertempered, tuning the intervals closer to the more complex [[5-limit]] interpretations despite that the very point of marvel is to use these intervals for 7-limit consonances. [[84edo]], another superset of [[12edo]], is an interesting edo to look at.
 === Tuning spectrum ===