Trisedodge family: Difference between revisions

Switch to Sintel's badness, WE & CWE tunings
m Text replacement - "Subgroup-val mapping: {{mapping| " to "{{Mapping|legend=2| "
 
(4 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 3: Line 3:


Named by [[Petr Pařízek]] in 2011, ''trisedodge'' (originally spelt ''trisedoge'') means that three semidiminished [[octave]]s add up to [[7/1]], and that an octave is made of 5 [[period]]s<ref name="naming">[https://yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup.github.io/tuning/topicId_101780.html Yahoo! Tuning Group | ''Suggested names for the unclasified temperaments'']</ref>.  
Named by [[Petr Pařízek]] in 2011, ''trisedodge'' (originally spelt ''trisedoge'') means that three semidiminished [[octave]]s add up to [[7/1]], and that an octave is made of 5 [[period]]s<ref name="naming">[https://yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup.github.io/tuning/topicId_101780.html Yahoo! Tuning Group | ''Suggested names for the unclasified temperaments'']</ref>.  
Temperaments discussed elsewhere include [[15th-octave temperaments #Quindecic|quindecic]] and [[Stearnsmic clan #Decistearn|decistearn]]. Considered below are trisedodge and coblack.


== Trisedodge ==
== Trisedodge ==
The generator of trisedodge is ~864/625 at around 554 cents, which in all 11-limit extensions is used to represent [[11/8]], and three of them and a period is equal to [[3/1]]. This generator, when reduced to the minimal size, represents [[25/24]]. However, another possible generator is ~6/5, reached by a period plus 25/24, that is, (144/125)(25/24) = 6/5.
The generator of trisedodge is [[~]][[864/625]] at around 554 [[cent]]s, which in all [[11-limit]] [[extension]]s is used to represent [[11/8]], and three of them and a period is equal to [[3/1]]. This generator, when reduced to the minimal size, represents [[25/24]]. However, another possible generator is ~[[6/5]], reached by a period plus 25/24, that is, 6/5 = (144/125)⋅(25/24).  
 
In the 11-limit the generator can be taken to be ~11/10, reached as a period minus 25/24, that is, (55/48)/(25/24) = 11/10. Therefore, since a period plus a gen is 6/5 and a period minus a gen is 11/10, we reach 12/11 at 2 gens.
 
Remarkably, trisedodge admits an extension to the full [[29-limit]] which, except for prime 13, is surprisingly obvious/simple a way to extend the 11-limit representation.


[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5
Line 29: Line 23:


[[Badness]] (Sintel): 5.93
[[Badness]] (Sintel): 5.93
=== Overview to extensions ===
The second comma of the comma list defines which 7-limit family member we are looking at. Among these are septimal trisedodge (65d & 80), which adds [[4000/3993]], coblack (50 & 65), which adds [[126/125]], and decistearn (50 & 80), which adds [[3136/3125]] and splits the period in two. Remarkably, septimal trisedodge admits an extension to the full [[29-limit]], which, except for prime 13, is obvious and simple a way to extend the 11-limit representation.
Temperaments discussed elsewhere include [[15th-octave temperaments #Quindecic|quindecic]]. The rest are considered below.
Septimal trisedodge and coblack have the common [[2.3.5.11-subgroup|2.3.5.11 subgroup]] [[restriction]], called countdown, considered immediately below. In this temperament, the generator can be taken to be ~11/10, reached as a period minus 25/24, that is, (55/48)/(25/24) = 11/10. Therefore, since a period plus a gen is 6/5 and a period minus a gen is 11/10, we reach 12/11 in 2 generator steps.


=== Countdown ===
=== Countdown ===
Line 35: Line 36:
Comma list: 4000/3993, 6912/6875
Comma list: 4000/3993, 6912/6875


Subgroup-val mapping: {{mapping| 5 1 7 15 | 0 3 2 1 }}
{{Mapping|legend=2| 5 1 7 15 | 0 3 2 1 }}


Optimal tunings:  
Optimal tunings:  
Line 46: Line 47:


== Septimal trisedodge ==
== Septimal trisedodge ==
We can extend trisedodge to the [[17-limit]] by using the sharp tendency of prime 5 to justify tempering out [[256/255]] ({{S|16}}). Note that prime 3 is also tuned sharp (though less than prime 5) in optimized tunings. We can then extend it to the 19-limit by tempering out [[361/360]] ({{S|19}}) or equivalently [[400/399]] ({{S|20}}), whose naturalness becomes much clearer when we consider it in the [[23-limit]], where we equate [[23/19]] with a stack of two [[11/10]]'s, tempering out [[2300/2299]] ([[S-expression|S20/S22]]), relying on the obvious mapping of [[23/16]] as one period above [[5/4]] so that [[~]][[23/20]] is tuned to 1\5. The mapping of 23 also implies tempering out [[276/275]] (the difference between [[55/48]] and [[23/20]]), which is [[3025/3024]] flat of [[253/252]]. Finally, there is an obvious mapping for [[29/16]] as two periods above [[11/8]] so that [[~]][[29/22]] is tuned to 2\5 and that [[~]][[32/29]] is equated with [[~]][[11/10]], the generator.
This defines trisedodge as being an unambiguously full [[29-limit]] temperament, with an interesting feature of having possible alternative mappings for primes 7 and 13. Prime 7 can either be mapped the more accurate way as septimal trisedodge does or it can be mapped as in [[#Coblack|coblack]], while prime 13 can alternatively be found as 8 generators ''up'' instead of down, corresponding to [[#Trisey|trisey]], though using both of those mappings simultaneously only really makes sense in [[80edo]], which is a reasonable edo tuning for it and happens to correspond to the 80-note generator chain of trisedodge required for finding every prime relative to the same root, though note that [[11/10]] is practically just there so that intervals of 29 require error cancellation of the oversharp 29th harmonic to help justify harmonically
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7


Line 60: Line 65:
{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=1| 15, 50d, 65d, 80 }}
{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=1| 15, 50d, 65d, 80 }}


Badness (Sintel): 3.48
[[Badness]] (Sintel): 3.48


=== 11-limit ===
=== 11-limit ===
Line 67: Line 72:
Comma list: 176/175, 1331/1323, 2560/2541
Comma list: 176/175, 1331/1323, 2560/2541


Mapping: {{mapping| 5 1 7 21 15 | 0 3 2 -3 1 }}
{{Mapping|legend=0| 5 1 7 21 15 | 0 3 2 -3 1 }}


Optimal tunings:  
Optimal tunings:  
Line 82: Line 87:
Comma list: 176/175, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323
Comma list: 176/175, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323


Mapping: {{mapping| 5 1 7 21 15 37 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 }}
{{Mapping|legend=0| 5 1 7 21 15 37 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 }}


Optimal tunings:
Optimal tunings:
Line 93: Line 98:


==== 17-limit ====
==== 17-limit ====
We extend to prime 17 by using the sharp tendency of prime 5 to justify tempering out ([[16/15]])/([[17/16]]) = [[256/255|S16]]. Note that prime 3 is also tuned sharp (though less than prime 5) in optimized tunings.
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17


Comma list: 176/175, 256/255, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323
Comma list: 176/175, 256/255, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323


Mapping: {{mapping| 5 1 7 21 15 37 32 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 -5 }}
{{Mapping|legend=0| 5 1 7 21 15 37 32 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 -5 }}


Optimal tunings:
Optimal tunings:
Line 110: Line 113:


==== 19-limit ====
==== 19-limit ====
We extend to prime 19 by tempering out [[361/360|361/360 = S19]] or equivalently [[400/399|400/399 = S20]], whose naturalness becomes much clearer when we consider it in the 23-limit as the result of tempering out ([[23/19]])/([[11/10|22/20]])<sup>2</sup> = [[2300/2299|S20/S22]], relying on the surprisingly obvious mapping of [[23/16]] as one period above [[5/4]] so that [[~]][[23/20]] = 1\5.
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19


Comma list: 176/175, 190/189, 256/255, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323
Comma list: 176/175, 190/189, 256/255, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323


Mapping: {{mapping| 5 1 7 21 15 37 32 12 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 -5 4 }}
{{Mapping|legend=0| 5 1 7 21 15 37 32 12 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 -5 4 }}


Optimal tunings:
Optimal tunings:
Line 127: Line 128:


==== 23-limit ====
==== 23-limit ====
As mentioned, prime 23 is found as prime 5 plus a period (up to octave-equivalence). This id done by tempering out ([[55/48]])/([[23/20]]) = [[276/275]] which is [[3025/3024]] flat of [[253/252]]. Curiously, the [[CTE]] and [[CWE]] tunings are almost exactly the same here (different by about a hundredth of a cent).
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19.23
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19.23


Comma list: 176/175, 190/189, 253/252, 256/255, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323
Comma list: 176/175, 190/189, 253/252, 256/255, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323


Mapping: {{mapping| 5 1 7 21 15 37 32 12 18 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 -5 4 2 }}
{{Mapping|legend=0| 5 1 7 21 15 37 32 12 18 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 -5 4 2 }}


Optimal tunings:
Optimal tunings:
Line 144: Line 143:


==== 29-limit ====
==== 29-limit ====
There's a surprisingly obvious mapping of [[29/16]] as two periods above [[11/8]] so that [[~]][[29/22]] = 2\5 and meaning equating [[~]][[32/29]] with [[~]][[11/10]], the generator. This defines trisedodge as being an unambiguously full 29-limit temperament, with an interesting feature of having two possible mappings of prime 7 and 13; prime 7 can either be mapped the more accurate way as septimal trisedodge does or it can be mapped as it is approximated in [[5edo]], while prime 13 can alternately be found as 8 generators ''up'' instead of down, corresponding to [[#Trisey]], though using both of those mappings simultaneously only really makes sense in [[80edo]], which is a reasonable edo tuning for it and happens to correspond to the 80-note MOS of trisedodge required for finding every prime relative to the same root, though note that [[11/10]] is practically just there so that intervals of 29 require error cancellation of the oversharp 29th harmonic to help justify harmonically
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19.23.29
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19.23.29


Comma list: 176/175, 190/189, 232/231, 253/252, 256/255, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323
Comma list: 176/175, 190/189, 232/231, 253/252, 256/255, 351/350, 1040/1029, 1331/1323


Mapping: {{mapping| 5 1 7 21 15 37 32 12 18 22 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 -5 4 2 1 }}
{{Mapping|legend=0| 5 1 7 21 15 37 32 12 18 22 | 0 3 2 -3 1 -8 -5 4 2 1 }}


Optimal tunings:
Optimal tunings:
Line 167: Line 164:
Comma list: 176/175, 325/324, 364/363, 640/637
Comma list: 176/175, 325/324, 364/363, 640/637


Mapping: {{mapping| 5 1 7 21 15 0 | 0 3 2 -3 1 8 }}
{{Mapping|legend=0| 5 1 7 21 15 0 | 0 3 2 -3 1 8 }}


Optimal tunings:
Optimal tunings:
Line 201: Line 198:
Comma list: 126/125, 245/242, 385/384
Comma list: 126/125, 245/242, 385/384


Mapping: {{mapping| 5 1 7 14 15 | 0 3 2 0 1 }}
{{Mapping|legend=0| 5 1 7 14 15 | 0 3 2 0 1 }}


Optimal tunings:  
Optimal tunings:  
Line 210: Line 207:


Badness (Sintel): 1.49
Badness (Sintel): 1.49
== Decistearn ==
Named by [[Xenllium]] in 2021, the decistearn temperament has a period of 1/10-octave and tempers out 3136/3125, the [[hemimean comma]], 118098/117649, the [[stearnsma]], as well as the [[linus comma]]. It may be described as 80 & 130.
By equating 16/13 with 69/56 and 85/69 (enabling 56:69:85 chords), we find [[23/16]] at 2 generators underneath 6 periods (which is the [[5edo]] fifth, [[10edo|6\10]]).
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5.7
[[Comma list]]: 3136/3125, 118098/117649
{{Mapping|legend=1| 10 2 14 5 | 0 3 2 5 }}
: mapping generators: ~15/14, ~135/98
[[Optimal tuning]]s:
* [[WE]]: ~15/14 = 119.9752{{c}}, ~135/98 = 553.8455{{c}}
: [[error map]]: {{val| -0.248 -0.468 +1.030 +0.277 }}
* [[CWE]]: ~15/14 = 120.0000{{c}}, ~135/98 = 553.8935{{c}}
: error map: {{val| 0.000 -0.275 +1.473 +0.642 }}
{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=1| 50, 80, 130, 470cd, 600cd, 730cd }}
[[Badness]] (Sintel): 2.42
=== 11-limit ===
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11
Comma list: 540/539, 3136/3125, 4000/3993
{{Mapping|legend=0| 10 2 14 5 30 | 0 3 2 5 1 }}
Optimal tunings:
* WE: ~15/14 = 119.9534{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.8639{{c}}
* CWE: ~15/14 = 120.0000{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.9779{{c}}
{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 50, 80, 130, 210e, 340ce, 470cdee, 810ccddeee }}
Badness (Sintel): 1.27
=== 13-limit ===
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13
Comma list: 351/350, 364/363, 540/539, 3136/3125
{{Mapping|legend=0| 10 2 14 5 30 37 | 0 3 2 5 1 0 }}
Optimal tunings:
* WE: ~15/14 = 119.9741{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.8275{{c}}
* CWE: ~15/14 = 120.0000{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.9051{{c}}
{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 50, 80, 130 }}
Badness (Sintel): 1.11
=== 17-limit ===
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17
Comma list: 221/220, 289/288, 351/350, 540/539, 1632/1625
{{Mapping|legend=0| 10 2 14 5 30 37 27 | 0 3 2 5 1 0 3 }}
Optimal tunings:
* WE: ~15/14 = 119.9899{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.8840{{c}}
* CWE: ~15/14 = 120.0000{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.9141{{c}}
{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 50, 80, 130 }}
Badness (Sintel): 1.23
=== 19-limit ===
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19
Comma list: 221/220, 289/288, 351/350, 361/360, 456/455, 476/475
{{Mapping|legend=0| 10 2 14 5 30 37 27 24 | 0 3 2 5 1 0 3 4 }}
Optimal tunings:
* WE: ~15/14 = 119.9949{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.9253{{c}}
* CWE: ~15/14 = 120.0000{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.9402{{c}}
{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 50, 80, 130 }}
Badness (Sintel): 1.11
=== 23-limit ===
Subgroup: 2.3.5.7.11.13.17.19.23
Comma list: 221/220, 289/288, 351/350, 361/360, 456/455, 476/475, 897/896
{{Mapping|legend=0| 10 2 14 5 30 37 27 24 36 | 0 3 2 5 1 0 3 4 2 }}
Optimal tunings:
* WE: ~15/14 = 119.9973{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.9247{{c}}
* CWE: ~15/14 = 120.0000{{c}}, ~11/8 = 553.9331{{c}}
{{Optimal ET sequence|legend=0| 50, 80, 130 }}
Badness (Sintel): 1.02


== References ==
== References ==