User talk:PiotrGrochowski: Difference between revisions

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please don't try to push the <code><nowiki><ul><li></li></ul></nowiki></code> style into the wiki. The wiki idea is that you have to know few or - better - no markup for adding (or editing) content. This way it's really easy to see how the wiki text relates to the HTML output. You may even read the article without transforming it into HTML. Why do you prefer to embed HTML tags if it isn't necessary at all (MediaWiki transforms it into HTML automatically). Are you maybe using the visual editor? Best --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:31, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

: We just discussing the issue on Facebook, here I read - let me cite: '' "the proper, canonical syntax" on a wiki is wiki markup'' Jonathan Bright and ''One only breaks into HTML if there is no support for the markup, and lists are supported.'' Joe McMahon - all in all, there is not a single vote pro your preference. Please tell me what's your point. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:42, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

:I haven't ever used the visual editor on xen.wiki and I don't want to. I live my life without overcomplications of the [[list model]]. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 07:44, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

== I removed a partial addition ==

Line 110:

Line 111:

Hi Piotr,

you started adding a column in the page [[15edo-interval names]] which broke the table, that's why I removed it (I beg your understanding). Feel free to re-add a ''whole'' column, but for linking to background information (I'm talking about [[User:PiotrGrochowski/Extra-Diatonic Intervals|Extra-Diatonic Intervals]]), it would be better use a page in the main namespace (soon), so that also others feel invited to elaborate about your idea. Best --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 09:40, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

:Stop saying you're the best. It's annoying. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 06:51, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

== Pardon? ==

Line 146:

Line 148:

Believe me, nobody's system is perfect, not Kite's, not anyone's! But I am also interested in designing a notation system, and I would be happy to work with you on this, to the extent that I have time. I created an outline for a [[KISS notation system|KISS_notation]] many years ago, but the page needs work... [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 01:06, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

:What do you mean by the wiki setup? The differences are here: <s>https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=Ups_and_Downs_Notation&type=revision&diff=34008&oldid=35895</s>https://en.xen.wiki/w/Special:ComparePages?page1=Ups+and+Downs+Notation&rev1=&page2=User%3APiotrGrochowski%2FUps+and+Downs+Notation-a&rev2=&action=&diffonly=&unhide=

:I made [[User:PiotrGrochowski/Ups and Downs Notation-a]] because in my opinion, just like the [[edo]]s, it's something that is a result of maths existing. It's neither Kite's, mine, yours or anyone else's. The difference is that all Kite's conventions are removed; scales now start with C and not D, augmented unison is included for 12edo, pentatonic scales removed, etc. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 14:46, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

:: Piotr - the thing is, as Kite continues to change his page, it will become difficult to see the differences between his page and yours. The link you gave above will only do a diff between the old version of his page and your current page. If you are not interested in making a new notation system, it would be helpful to make a page that emphasizes the difference between your sytem and his, so we can see what they are. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 07:32, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

:::Stop calling it my system when it isn't! Kite minus Kite is no one. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 15:45, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

::::Regardless, still, it would be helpful to make a page that emphasizes the differences between what you are proposing and what he is proposing. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 17:54, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

== A word about templates ==

Hello Piotr,

I understand your idea to include (some) templates into the [[:Category:Shortcuts]] but you are doing it wrong: if you place <code><nowiki>[[Category:Shortcuts]]</nowiki></code> into a template without surrounding it by <code><nowiki><noinclude></nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki></noinclude></nowiki></code>, you cause the including (or "transcluding") pages to be added to this category, what may be intended, but obviously not in this very case ([https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=SandBox&oldid=36275#List_model currently] [[SandBox]] is categorized as a [[:Category:Shortcuts|Shortcut]] but in fact it isn't). BTW [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=Template%3AMonzo&type=revision&diff=36459&oldid=36458 I protected Template:Monzo] to help you concentrate on fixing the problems in [[Template:List]] fist.

Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 17:24, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

== broken ratios ==

Good to point on this! But I'd do it openly in your place. Maybe by typing "broken ratio!" behind the wrong numbers so that everyone can see the error. (If he/she is so smart as to understand that an 0-ending in numerator and denominator clearly indicates a rounding error). I woudn't hide the errors by commenting them out. Best --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 22:21, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

== Scratch programming ==

Hi Piotr,

you seem to be a [https://scratch.mit.edu/users/ihgfedcba/ Scratch programmer]. What are the prerequisites to run these programs? Is it possible from within modern Browsers? Doesn't is need a Flash Player?

BTW: Do you also program in other languages?

Best --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 22:01, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

:The projects run on Flash. It's possible to use Flash in Android using the Puffin Browser. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 05:09, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

:Also, the generator I was talking about in [[Talk:13-limit/WikispacesArchive]] was also made in Scratch, although it wasn't shared. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 05:10, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

== Your list modelling efforts ==

Hi Piotr,

MediaWiki has a built-in list feature that makes it easy to add and ''maintain'' lists (unordered, ordered, mixed) on wiki pages. This is for a purpose. If you are interested in doing it the hard way yourself, maybe invest your time into it. But stop ''wasting other people's time'' with it. If you wish to suggest technical improvements to the wiki community, try to discuss it first. If not on Facebook then here on talk pages or in separate project pages (in the [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Special:AllPages?from=&to=&namespace=4 project namespace]). You may as well be bold and introduce it into normal pages but be open to ''accept'' that the feedback may differ from you expectations. Don't push your ideas into the wiki by pretending they're common conventions. Believe me, there are lots of people here that are absolute familiar with HTML. Wikis were invented to ''avoid'' HTML wherever possible, I thought you knew about that. Please move your list model project into the project namespace. You may link to it from your user namespace at will. You may also link to it from talk pages if you explain why.

Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 06:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

:You are very biased towards that [[list model]]. The [[Conventions]] are not biased towards any particular [[list model]]. What you're describing is <code>wikispaces</code>, which is closing for a reason. Not to mention it's a pain to get newlines in many environments. Please stop being biased. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 06:51, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

== last warning ==

Immediately repair the damage you have done since your blocking ended. In an ''acceptable'' way. No kidding. You have one hour. If you don't, you will be '''blocked for one week''' - the deadline is '''10:35 local time (CEST)''' --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 07:35, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

:I did not do any damage. It's already repaired. You will not ban me. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 08:19, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

:: I see '''only one constructive edit''' in [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=PiotrGrochowski&namespace=&tagfilter=&start=2018-10-16&end=2018-10-16 these] You are still promoting forcefully (without any regard) your pointless [[list model]]. You have '''6 minutes left.'''. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:29, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

::: What? All of these are constructive, no [[list model]] is pointless and you are the one promoting a specific list model. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 08:35, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

You have been [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=Xenwolf&page=User%3APiotrGrochowski&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&subtype= blocked for one <s>month</s> week] to carefully study what's been going on in the last ≈90 minutes. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:47, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

== Thanks for contributing again ==

Hello Piotr,

I ask you to do a critical review of what you are calling "[[list model]]". There will be very few people that will call it like this. And, much more important, MediaWiki will export '''valid HTML''' lists for the simplified wiki markup (<code>#</code>, <code>*</code> and <code>;</code>+<code>:</code>) as well as for list built via HTML markup, the same is true for your templates, but not for the other "options". Please have a look on the resulting HTML delivered by MediaWiki, I mean: check the delivered HTML source code (for example Ctrl+U for Firefox under Windows).

Thanks in advance!

--[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:10, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

:The [[list models]] need not have the same HTML output. Plaintext lists are named so because the output is plaintext, so it can be copied anywhere, including personal notes in Notepad or in the <nowiki><pre></pre></nowiki> safety zone. Defined lists intentionally override the MediaWiki list styling for a defined one. All of these are valid HTML. Do you see any HTML errors in your browser's debugger in [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=SandBox&oldid=37569#List_model SandBox#List model]? [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 17:39, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

=== Why on earth are you insisting to re-invent the wheel?? ===

The wiki source code ''is meant'' to be the ideal fall-back version. That's why it's a bad idea to overcomplicate it. In MediaWiki it's easy to get access to the source code, even if in read-only mode (BTW: did you know [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Chroma?action=raw <code>?action=raw</code>]). Do you really believe that someone is interested in adding unreadable number pictures and hard-coded line breaks, if styling is normally based on CSS these times? Here is what W3Cschools have to say about [https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_lists.asp HTML Lists]. Please consider to further clarify your intention with the help of some sensible reference. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:08, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

:Not everything has to go along your or W3C's opinions. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 09:05, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

== Serious warning ==

You are obviously unable to present your intention in a polite and understandable manner. I assume that your intrusive changes will result in you being permanently put into read-only mode in the near future. I very much regret that you have such difficulties with self-criticism. It is still open how long your writing pause will last. I know from some dedicated Xenwiki users that they plead for a permanent ban and resent me for not having you permanently blocked already. Do me (and you!) a favor and undo your last changes.

--[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 13:06, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

@@ Line 105: / Line 105: @@
 please don't try to push the <code><nowiki><ul><li></li></ul></nowiki></code> style into the wiki. The wiki idea is that you have to know few or - better - no markup for adding (or editing) content. This way it's really easy to see how the wiki text relates to the HTML output. You may even read the article without transforming it into HTML. Why do you prefer to embed HTML tags if it isn't necessary at all (MediaWiki transforms it into HTML automatically). Are you maybe using the visual editor? <br/> Best --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:31, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 : We just discussing the issue on Facebook, here I read - let me cite: '' "the proper, canonical syntax" on a wiki is wiki markup''<sup> Jonathan Bright</sup> and ''One only breaks into HTML if there is no support for the markup, and lists are supported.''<sup> Joe McMahon</sup> - all in all, there is not a single vote pro your preference. Please tell me what's your point. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:42, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
+:I haven't ever used the visual editor on xen.wiki and I don't want to. I live my life without overcomplications of the [[list model]]. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 07:44, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
 == I removed a partial addition ==
@@ Line 110: / Line 111: @@
 Hi Piotr, <br/>
 you started adding a column in the page [[15edo-interval names]] which broke the table, that's why I removed it (I beg your understanding). Feel free to re-add a ''whole'' column, but for linking to background information (I'm talking about [[User:PiotrGrochowski/Extra-Diatonic Intervals|Extra-Diatonic Intervals]]), it would be better use a page in the main namespace (soon), so that also others feel invited to elaborate about your idea. <br/> Best --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 09:40, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
+:Stop saying you're the best. It's annoying. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 06:51, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 == Pardon? ==
@@ Line 146: / Line 148: @@
 Believe me, nobody's system is perfect, not Kite's, not anyone's! But I am also interested in designing a notation system, and I would be happy to work with you on this, to the extent that I have time. I created an outline for a [[KISS notation system|KISS_notation]] many years ago, but the page needs work... [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 01:06, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
+:What do you mean by the wiki setup? The differences are here: <s>https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=Ups_and_Downs_Notation&type=revision&diff=34008&oldid=35895</s>https://en.xen.wiki/w/Special:ComparePages?page1=Ups+and+Downs+Notation&rev1=&page2=User%3APiotrGrochowski%2FUps+and+Downs+Notation-a&rev2=&action=&diffonly=&unhide=
+:I made [[User:PiotrGrochowski/Ups and Downs Notation-a]] because in my opinion, just like the [[edo]]s, it's something that is a result of maths existing. It's neither Kite's, mine, yours or anyone else's. The difference is that all Kite's conventions are removed; scales now start with C and not D, augmented unison is included for 12edo, pentatonic scales removed, etc. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 14:46, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
+:: Piotr - the thing is, as Kite continues to change his page, it will become difficult to see the differences between his page and yours. The link you gave above will only do a diff between the old version of his page and your current page. If you are not interested in making a new notation system, it would be helpful to make a page that emphasizes the difference between your sytem and his, so we can see what they are. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 07:32, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
+:::Stop calling it my system when it isn't! Kite minus Kite is no one. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 15:45, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
+::::Regardless, still, it would be helpful to make a page that emphasizes the differences between what you are proposing and what he is proposing. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 17:54, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
+== A word about templates ==
+Hello Piotr, <br/>
+I understand your idea to include (some) templates into the [[:Category:Shortcuts]] but you are doing it wrong: if you place <code><nowiki>[[Category:Shortcuts]]</nowiki></code> into a template without surrounding it by <code><nowiki><noinclude></nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki></noinclude></nowiki></code>, you cause the including (or "transcluding") pages to be added to this category, what may be intended, but obviously not in this very case ([https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=SandBox&oldid=36275#List_model currently] [[SandBox]] is categorized as a [[:Category:Shortcuts|Shortcut]] but in fact it isn't). BTW [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=Template%3AMonzo&type=revision&diff=36459&oldid=36458 I protected Template:Monzo] to help you concentrate on fixing the problems in [[Template:List]] fist. <br/>
+Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 17:24, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
+== broken ratios ==
+Good to point on this! But I'd do it openly in your place. Maybe by typing "broken ratio!" behind the wrong numbers so that everyone can see the error. (If he/she is so smart as to understand that an 0-ending in numerator and denominator clearly indicates a rounding error). I woudn't hide the errors by commenting them out. Best --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 22:21, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
+== Scratch programming ==
+Hi Piotr, <br/>
+you seem to be a [https://scratch.mit.edu/users/ihgfedcba/ Scratch programmer]. What are the prerequisites to run these programs? Is it possible from within modern Browsers? Doesn't is need a Flash Player? <br/>
+BTW: Do you also program in other languages? <br/>
+Best --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 22:01, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
+:The projects run on Flash. It's possible to use Flash in Android using the Puffin Browser. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 05:09, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
+:Also, the generator I was talking about in [[Talk:13-limit/WikispacesArchive]] was also made in Scratch, although it wasn't shared. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 05:10, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
+== Your list modelling efforts ==
+Hi Piotr, <br/>
+MediaWiki has a built-in list feature that makes it easy to add and ''maintain'' lists (unordered, ordered, mixed) on wiki pages. This is for a purpose. If you are interested in doing it the hard way yourself, maybe invest your time into it. But stop ''wasting other people's time'' with it. If you wish to suggest technical improvements to the wiki community, try to discuss it first. If not on Facebook then here on talk pages or in separate project pages (in the [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Special:AllPages?from=&to=&namespace=4 project namespace]). You may as well be bold and introduce it into normal pages but be open to ''accept'' that the feedback may differ from you expectations. Don't push your ideas into the wiki by pretending they're common conventions. Believe me, there are lots of people here that are absolute familiar with HTML. Wikis were invented to ''avoid'' HTML wherever  possible, I thought you knew about that. Please move your list model project into the project namespace. You may link to it from your user namespace at will. You may also link to it from talk pages if you explain why. <br/>
+Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 06:43, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
+:You are very biased towards that [[list model]]. The [[Conventions]] are not biased towards any particular [[list model]]. What you're describing is <code>wikispaces</code>, which is closing for a reason. Not to mention it's a pain to get newlines in many environments. Please stop being biased. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 06:51, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
+== last warning ==
+Immediately repair the damage you have done since your blocking ended. In an ''acceptable'' way. No kidding. You have one hour. If you don't, you will be '''blocked for one week''' - the deadline is '''10:35 local time (CEST)''' --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 07:35, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
+:I did not do any damage. It's already repaired. You will not ban me. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 08:19, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
+:: I see '''only one constructive edit''' in [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=PiotrGrochowski&namespace=&tagfilter=&start=2018-10-16&end=2018-10-16 these] You are still promoting forcefully (without any regard) your pointless [[list model]]. You have '''6 minutes left.'''. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:29, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
+::: What? All of these are constructive, no [[list model]] is pointless and you are the one promoting a specific list model. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 08:35, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
+You have been [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=Xenwolf&page=User%3APiotrGrochowski&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&subtype= blocked for one <s>month</s> <u>week</u>] to carefully study what's been going on in the last ≈90 minutes. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:47, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
+== Thanks for contributing again ==
+Hello Piotr,<br/>
+I ask you to do a critical review of what you are calling "[[list model]]". There will be very few people that will call it like this. And, much more important, MediaWiki will export '''valid HTML''' lists for the simplified wiki markup (<code>#</code>, <code>*</code> and <code>;</code>+<code>:</code>) as well as for list built via HTML markup, the same is true for your templates, but not for the other "options". Please have a look on the resulting HTML delivered by MediaWiki, I mean: check the delivered HTML source code (for example Ctrl+U for Firefox under Windows). <br/>
+Thanks in advance! <br/>
+--[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:10, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
+:The [[list models]] need not have the same HTML output. Plaintext lists are named so because the output is plaintext, so it can be copied anywhere, including personal notes in Notepad or in the <nowiki><pre></pre></nowiki> safety zone. Defined lists intentionally override the MediaWiki list styling for a defined one. All of these are valid HTML. Do you see any HTML errors in your browser's debugger in [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=SandBox&oldid=37569#List_model SandBox#List model]? [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 17:39, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
+=== Why on earth are you insisting to re-invent the wheel?? ===
+The wiki source code ''is meant'' to be the ideal fall-back version. That's why it's a bad idea to overcomplicate it. In MediaWiki it's easy to get access to the source code, even if in read-only mode (BTW: did you know [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Chroma?action=raw <code>?action=raw</code>]). Do you really believe that someone is interested in adding unreadable number pictures and hard-coded line breaks, if styling is normally based on CSS these times? Here is what W3Cschools have to say about [https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_lists.asp HTML Lists]. Please consider to further clarify your intention with the help of some sensible reference. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:08, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
+:Not everything has to go along your or W3C's opinions. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[Editor PiotrGrochowski|info]], [[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]], [[Special:Contributions/PiotrGrochowski|contribs]]) 09:05, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
+== Serious warning ==
+You are obviously unable to present your intention in a polite and understandable manner. I assume that your intrusive changes will result in you being permanently put into read-only mode in the near future. I very much regret that you have such difficulties with self-criticism. It is still open how long your writing pause will last. I know from some dedicated Xenwiki users that they plead for a permanent ban and resent me for not having you permanently blocked already. Do me (and you!) a favor and undo your last changes.
+--[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 13:06, 24 October 2018 (UTC)