Talk:5120/5103

"Universal" name for 5120/5103

I've noticed the conversation on the XA Discord about picking a name to replace "hemifamity comma". Suggestions I've seen include argent comma and pele comma. I'm a bit biased towards aberschisma since I coined the name, but MidnightBlue pointed out that 6¢ is quite wide to be calling it a schisma, which I've also thought about. Maybe aberkleisma or even pentasept comma?

I'm not too invested into this comma, but will add my schisma 2c after seeing the Discord convo: pele comma and peleisma are fine with me, whereas I'm afraid argent comma, while logical, may be confused with the argyria (which is more of an argument for renaming the latter).

On a side note, 5120/5103 does function like a kleisma for me, particularly because the ratio of the pental kleisma to it is the horwell comma, which is among the staple commas in my 7-limit analysis of edos incl. 53. Because schismic x kleismic product words are among the best ways to make well-tempered 53-note scales, the pental kleisma is a chroma there, and when horwell tempered, it turns into 5120/5103 and is, among other roles, the scale-chroma between the 81/80 and 64/63 steps.

Meanwhile, the ratio of 5120/5103 to the pental schisma is the garischisma. So for fans of the latter, which I'm not, it may act like a schisma instead, but that's less likely because the pental schisma flattens the fifth while the garischisma sharpens it, so if anything, the latter and 5120/5103 would be seen as 'negative schismas', which, btw, brings us to the concept of counterpyth.

Afaik, counterpyth has never been considered under this name without 5120/5103, whereas 1216/1215 works well together with other commas that stack slightly sharp fifths, such as the wilschisma and the symbiotic comma, and the name Eratosthenes' comma is good, so I disagree with the assignment of the counterpyth family label to any temp with 1216/1215 in sintel's finder. I.e., to me, 5120/5103 is more related to counterpyth than 1216/1215 is. But I can't be sure of my judgment on this without FloraC's opinion. Either way, I don't mind counterpyth comma for 5120/5103, its 7-limit rank-3 then called counterpyth like its canonical extension to 2.3.5.7.19 already is.

--VIxen (talk) 23:55, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

I'm all for argent comma. The similarity with argyria isn't high enough to worry me. I'm against pele comma cuz that would set pele as canon which I don't think we should ever do. For the same reason I'd hesitate to call it counterpyth comma. FloraC (talk) 14:17, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

OK, then I settle on argent comma too. That matches my view of argent fifths as a distinct region that's roughly [65\111, 17\29] and sharp of the olympic / garischismic / symbiotic / wilschismic fifths region that's roughly [55\94, 65\111]. --VIxen (talk) 18:38, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

What about 41edo and 46edo? Those are both notable tunings that temper out the comma and have fifths that fall outside of your *argent* range. -- Tristanbay (talk) 00:35, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

On my part I include 41edo within the argent range; and there's a case to be made that 46edo and 53edo, while notable, aren't truly representative of the intonation of tempering out 5120/5103. "Argent" strictly speaking refers not to a particular tuning range, anyhow, but to a specific tuning that sets the logarithmic ratio of the perfect fifth to the perfect fourth to be sqrt(2):1, for which one can define bands of tolerance around, but which very closely corresponds to the most accurate tunings that temper out this comma. Perhaps "argentisma" -> argentic, argentismic would be clearer, so as not to imply an RTT interpretation for the term "argent temperament" which is already in use.

Compare this to the intonation of counterpyth, which quite distinctly favors tunings of 3/2 far flatter than the optimum of tempering out 5120/5103 by itself: just 19/15 gives us roughly 1/16-comma hemifamity as opposed to just 15/14, 7/5, or 21/20 which provide 1/5, 1/6, and 1/7-comma tunings. For this reason, I oppose seeing counterpyth as a canonical extension to the 7-limit rank-3 {5120/5103} temperament. -- Lériendil (talk) 01:24, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

I did think about making 24\41 the boundary instead, as rank-3 microtemps tend to have flatter fifths than that even if 152fg or 111 support them. My flat end of argent is surely not flatter than 24\41 and not sharper than 41\70. Between those are kwai fifths... that I may consider too damaged indeed on second thought, and so belonging to the "slightly exo" range codenamed argent. VIxen (talk) 20:23, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

I prefer "Saruyo". It's the only name out of all these suggestions that directly indicates 5120/5103. --TallKite (talk) 09:19, 5 June 2025 (UTC)