Diesis: Difference between revisions

From Xenharmonic Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Inthar (talk | contribs)
m Added quote from Zhea
As a diatonic interval category: maybe not using enharmonic to define this as that's kinda circular
 
(12 intermediate revisions by 5 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Wikipedia|Diesis}}
{{Wikipedia}}
The '''diesis''' (/ˈdaɪəsɪs/ ''DY-ə-sis''; plural ''dieses'') is a small interval that has several related definitions. Most commonly, it refers to [[128/125]], the ''augmented comma'' a.k.a. ''lesser diesis'', though rarely and if the context is clear, it can refer to [[648/625]], the ''diminished comma'' a.k.a. ''greater diesis''.


The '''diesis''' (/ˈdaɪəsɪs/ ''DY-ə-sis''; plural ''dieses'') most commonly refers to:
== History ==
The earliest usage of the term ''diesis'' was due to {{w|Philolaus}} in [[ancient Greek music]] to refer to an interval that is known as the [[256/243|limma]] today. Another usage, also in ancient Greek theory and notably used by {{w|Aristoxenus}}, would refer to a number of [[quartertone]]-sized intervals. In more recent times, {{w|Marchetto da Padova}} used it for fifth-tones, and finally, the modern diesis centered around [[31edo|1\31]] is due to [[Adriaan Fokker]].


* The interval [[128/125]] (≈ 41¢).
== As an interval region ==
* Any interval about that size. In particular, [[Zhea Erose]] defines it as, fairly broadly, any interval in the range 31 to 41 cents, or more narrowly 35 to 38 cents. When played in the E3-E5 range, those intervals allegedly tend to beat at the speed of typical human singing vibrato. Zhea considers [[31edo]] and [[34edo]] to be special for having an interval in this range:
As an interval region, the diesis is a small melodic unit of about an augmented comma's size. The specific range varies considerably among musicians, but is generally agreed to be roughly 30–60 cents.  
<blockquote>re: the hyperstep stuff:<blockquote> Analysis of phonograph recordings of virtuoso string performers (Reger, 1932; Hollinshead, 1932) found rates ranging from 5.6 to 7 Hz (see Table 1). This research concluded that although the extent of the violin vibrato is smaller than for singing, the rates are similar. Cheslock (1931) and Small (1937) analyzed phonograph recordings of performances by Kreisler, Menuhin, Szigeti and others. Vibrato was present in almost all tones, and the mean rate was around 6.3 Hz. Results from the Iowa studies have been largely confirmed in later studies, for example, Fletcher and Sanders (1967) found vibrato rates about 6 Hz, only slightly slower than some of the early reports. Thibeault (1997) studied solo bassists and found rates ranging from 5 to 7 Hz and reported a correlation of vibrato rate with tempo of excerpts, but not with pitch register. Geringer and Allen (2004) studied vibrato characteristics of 40 high school and college violinists and cellists. We analyzed whole notes performed in first position, and we found somewhat slower rates of vibrato, 5.5 Hz.</blockquote>When we study voices in multiple singing styles and cross culturally we see the average beat rate of vibrato falls between 4.5-6.5 cycles per second. At a C4, the 31edo shimmerstep (1\31) beats at 5.75 times a second which is a clear center of human vibrato rates. Of course the perceived beat rate will change depending on the fundamental but if we take C4 as a nice "center" we see:
at a C4, 261.6 Hz,
29edo seems to beat at ~425 bpm — thus, 29's corrosive step hits at ~7 Hz.
31edo seems to beat at  ~345 bpm — thus, 31's shimmerstep hits at ~5.75 Hz
34edo seems to beat at ~275 bpm — thus, 34's shimmerstep hits at ~4.583 Hz slower but still within that normal vibrato range.
41edo seems to beat at ~228 bpm — thus, 41edo's glimmerstep hits at 3.8 Hz which starts to exist outside the boundaries of vibrato typical.
For this reason, that is why I tend to work a lot with 29-34 as a general pre-image of notes and why I consider them to be exceptional for overall gestalt and chord work compared to something like 41, 43 or slightly higher etc or 26 or slightly lower. Which is quite interesting because then you start to wrap around on yourself. Those zones to me are less interesting gestalts. — Zhea Erose, https://discord.com/channels/332357996569034752/859884647337033738/1014961523220815892</blockquote>
* The difference between two enharmonic notes in a scale, i.e. the diminished second (a minor second diminished by a [[chroma]]).


Intervals with the word in the name:
=== Just intervals ===
Some just intervals have been named according to this sense of diesis.
* [[Porcupine comma]], or ''maximal diesis'' (49.2{{c}})
* [[Magic comma]], or ''small diesis'' (29.6{{c}})
* [[Tetracot comma]], or ''minimal diesis'' (27.7{{c}})
* [[49/48]], the ''large septimal diesis'' (35.7{{c}})
* [[50/49]], the ''small septimal diesis'' or ''septimal tritonic diesis'' (35.0{{c}})


* Greater diesis, [[648/625]]
This is not to be confused with the related sense of the same term introduced next, for which the [[648/625|major diesis (648/625)]] was named while being way wider than the "maximal diesis".
* Small diesis, aka [[magic comma]]
 
* Minimal diesis, aka [[tetracot comma]]
== As a diatonic interval category ==
* Septimal diesis, [[49/48]]
In the [[5L 2s|diatonic]] scale, the diesis, more specifically '''enharmonic diesis''', is a diminished second or inverse diminished second, whichever is positive in size. An example of a diesis is the interval between C♯ and D♭. The diesis spans twelve [[perfect fifth]]s, and is observed in any tuning whose perfect fifth is not the same as [[12edo]]'s. Notes related by the diesis are said to be ''enharmonic'' to each other.
 
=== Just intervals ===
If the fifth represents the just interval [[3/2]], the diesis or inverse diesis represents the [[Pythagorean comma]]. In [[meantone]], the diesis approximates a class of [[comma]]s separated by the syntonic comma ([[81/80]]), among which [[128/125]], the augmented comma, is notable for being tuned pure in [[quarter-comma meantone]]. Therefore ''diesis'' traditionally refers to the augmented comma by default. Other dieses according to this definition are
* [[648/625]], the major diesis, tuned pure in [[1/3-comma meantone]].
* [[2048/2025]], the diaschisma, tuned pure in [[1/6-comma meantone]].
* [[32805/32768]], the schisma, tuned pure in 1/12-comma meantone.
 
This is not to be confused with the related sense of the same term introduced in the section above, for which a number of other intervals are named despite not being reached through twelve fifths.
 
=== Generalization ===
The diesis can be generalized to any [[mos scale]] as the '''mosdiesis''', defined as {{nowrap| {{!}}L - 2s{{!}} }}, i.e. the difference between a large step and two small steps. In terms of [[stepspan]], it is usually the diminished mosstep or inverse diminished mosstep, whichever is positive. However, in ''n''L 1s scales, it is the double-diminished mosstep or inverse thereof since the small step itself is diminished. Except for ''n''L 1s scales, it is the diminished mosstep in [[soft]] {{nowrap|(L:s < 2:1)}} scales and the inverse diminished mosstep in [[hard]] {{nowrap|(L:s > 2:1)}} scales. It vanishes in basic {{nowrap|(L:s {{=}} 2:1)}} scales.


== Normal diesis ==
== Normal diesis ==
The '''normal diesis''' (38.) is an [[interval size measure]] defined as one step of [[31edo]].
The '''normal diesis''' (~38.7{{c}}) is an [[interval size measure]] defined as one step of [[31edo]].
 
== See also ==
* [[Chroma]]
* [[Shimmerstep]]


[[Category:Commas]]
== External links ==
[[Category:Interval size measure]]
* [http://tonalsoft.com/enc/d/diesis.aspx Tonalsoft Encyclopedia | ''Diesis'']


{{Disambiguation}}
[[Category:Terms]]
[[Category:MOS scale]]
[[Category:Interval size measures]]

Latest revision as of 06:55, 10 June 2026

English Wikipedia has an article on:

The diesis (/ˈdaɪəsɪs/ DY-ə-sis; plural dieses) is a small interval that has several related definitions. Most commonly, it refers to 128/125, the augmented comma a.k.a. lesser diesis, though rarely and if the context is clear, it can refer to 648/625, the diminished comma a.k.a. greater diesis.

History

The earliest usage of the term diesis was due to Philolaus in ancient Greek music to refer to an interval that is known as the limma today. Another usage, also in ancient Greek theory and notably used by Aristoxenus, would refer to a number of quartertone-sized intervals. In more recent times, Marchetto da Padova used it for fifth-tones, and finally, the modern diesis centered around 1\31 is due to Adriaan Fokker.

As an interval region

As an interval region, the diesis is a small melodic unit of about an augmented comma's size. The specific range varies considerably among musicians, but is generally agreed to be roughly 30–60 cents.

Just intervals

Some just intervals have been named according to this sense of diesis.

  • Porcupine comma, or maximal diesis (49.2 ¢)
  • Magic comma, or small diesis (29.6 ¢)
  • Tetracot comma, or minimal diesis (27.7 ¢)
  • 49/48, the large septimal diesis (35.7 ¢)
  • 50/49, the small septimal diesis or septimal tritonic diesis (35.0 ¢)

This is not to be confused with the related sense of the same term introduced next, for which the major diesis (648/625) was named while being way wider than the "maximal diesis".

As a diatonic interval category

In the diatonic scale, the diesis, more specifically enharmonic diesis, is a diminished second or inverse diminished second, whichever is positive in size. An example of a diesis is the interval between C♯ and D♭. The diesis spans twelve perfect fifths, and is observed in any tuning whose perfect fifth is not the same as 12edo's. Notes related by the diesis are said to be enharmonic to each other.

Just intervals

If the fifth represents the just interval 3/2, the diesis or inverse diesis represents the Pythagorean comma. In meantone, the diesis approximates a class of commas separated by the syntonic comma (81/80), among which 128/125, the augmented comma, is notable for being tuned pure in quarter-comma meantone. Therefore diesis traditionally refers to the augmented comma by default. Other dieses according to this definition are

This is not to be confused with the related sense of the same term introduced in the section above, for which a number of other intervals are named despite not being reached through twelve fifths.

Generalization

The diesis can be generalized to any mos scale as the mosdiesis, defined as |L - 2s|, i.e. the difference between a large step and two small steps. In terms of stepspan, it is usually the diminished mosstep or inverse diminished mosstep, whichever is positive. However, in nL 1s scales, it is the double-diminished mosstep or inverse thereof since the small step itself is diminished. Except for nL 1s scales, it is the diminished mosstep in soft (L:s < 2:1) scales and the inverse diminished mosstep in hard (L:s > 2:1) scales. It vanishes in basic (L:s = 2:1) scales.

Normal diesis

The normal diesis (~38.7 ¢) is an interval size measure defined as one step of 31edo.

See also

External links