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This page is for general discussion on how to improve the wiki
<div style="border: 1px green solid; background-color: #efe; padding: 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em">
'''Hello there! This page is for general discussion on how to improve the wiki. A community wish list of sorts.'''


'''FOR BUGS, PLEASE REPORT THEM AT [[Bugs]]'''
If you have an experimental proposal for changing or adding to the wiki in a new way, post it on this page.


=Future of this wiki=
If you have a proposal to improve the basic fundamentals of the wiki, post it at: [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Things to do|Things to Do]].


For bugs, please report them at: [[Bugs]].
''See also: [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Conventions|Conventions]], [[Projects#WikiProjects]], [[Help:Migration FAQ]], as well as [[:Category:Todo]] and its subcategories.''
</div>
{{Archives}}
== Future of this wiki ==
Please leave suggestions below. Don't forget to sign them: type <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after your comment to leave a signature. For example: [[User:Battaglia01|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Battaglia01|talk]]) 12:46, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Please leave suggestions below. Don't forget to sign them: type <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after your comment to leave a signature. For example: [[User:Battaglia01|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Battaglia01|talk]]) 12:46, 19 September 2018 (UTC)


===Complete incomplete articles===
=== Improved Yahoo! search engine ===
Eighteen articles in this wiki are incomplete. Without people to add info, this wiki couldn't progress. We encourage users to complete the articles below and hope former experienced {{SITENAME}} users come here. If an article becomes complete, a new placeholder article may be done (such as an [[EDO#100...199|edo]] or [[Special:WantedPages|a broken link]]) to replace the previous in the list to give experienced users more to do.
Now that you can do an advanced search of the tuning (or other) list over the entirety of its life on Yahoo, there is less need to copy things from the tuning list archive. On the other hand, particularly well-written emails might deserve to get their own page. Authors' permissions necessary? [[User:Xenjacob|zenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


Pages in this list can also be seen at [[:Category:Stub]] (however that category is moderated by everyone, while this list is moderated by [[User:PiotrGrochowski]], so the two lists may diverge over time).
=== Database of "microtonal solutions" ===
Not only examples of hardware-software setups as Jon Szanto has repeatedly suggested, but also acoustic solutions, experiencial instrument-making info, a list with the location of every known rare microtonal instrument, and perhaps a way for composers to write for such instruments (providing the curators of them want this)


See [[:Category:Todo]] for articles with other issues.
An instrument-centric approach: [[MicrotonalInstruments]]. [[User:Xenjacob|zenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


#[[Table of 171edo intervals]] (complete a big table)
=== Improved Listening List ===
#[[Well Temperament]] (add more information)
The list of downloadable microtonal sounds is in good shape. It does need people to watch relevant sources (tuning and MMM lists come to mind) and add/update the links. A reviewing or rating system, perhaps also of CD releases, may additionally be helpful. [[User:Xenjacob|zenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
#[[107edo]] (add more information)
#[[153edo]] (add more information)
#[[218edo]] (add more information)
#[[0/0]] (add more information)
#[[225/224]] (add more information)
#[[32805/32768]] (add more information)
#[[15625/15552]] (add more information)
#[[Tritone]] (add more information)
#[[167edo]] (add more information)
#[[110edo]] (add more information)
#[[Frequency ratio]] (add more information)
#[[Extended meantone notation]] (find symbols for the notation)
#[[436edo]] (add more information)
#[[1445/1444]] (add more information)
#[[Xenharmonic_Wiki:General_disclaimer]] (add more information)
#[[117edo]] (add more information)
(from User:PiotrGrochowski)


=== Javascript Strategy ===
=== Pages on debates? ===
Javascript is by default disabled on Mediawiki for security reasons. However, it could be a really really powerful tool for making accessible, interactive explanations for a lot of things. Just as an example, imagine that any number followed by ¢ would automagically create an exemplary audio file like the one linked to at the top of [[octave]]...imagine something like that playing when you hover over the text. Or imagine a [[wikipedia:Lissajous_curve|Lissajous curve]] appears in the background when you hover over a just ratio. There are some of us capable in Javascript, and some extant widgets written in Javascript, like [https://ia601408.us.archive.org/1/items/mosedo.html/mosedo.html Billy Stiltner's MOSedo] and [http://untwelve.org/online_tools AKJ's tools]. We need at least a collected xenharmonic Javascript library, and maybe that project can't live here, but it would be nice to see it eventually integrated somehow. [[User:Xenjacob|Xenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]]) 15:51, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
Do we want to touch the dangerous stuff? JI vs. ET vs. EDO? MMM vs. just plain MM? The point would not be to have another place to play out the old arguments, but to ''make'' something useful out of them.


=== Add more languages ===
On the other hand, we ''could'' make pages on points that many can agree on, with the aim of working together to come up with ways to meet our collective goals. The obvious one, originally Harry Partch: Microtonality is overlooked or dismissed all too often, and the best way to counter its detractors is in making good music with it. [[User:Xenjacob|zenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


This wiki could benefit from [[What languages do various users know?|wiki translators]] to add new languages to this wiki. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 18:05, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
=== More on making things: a radical proposal ===
To me, the wiki as a structure remains an invitation to try new ways to represent information and to cause social interaction to happen. Much of this is overlap with the general Web 2.0 mentality, as well as creeping exhibitionism: why blog or wiki about something you're doing instead of just doing it? What I add to it are '''Unreasonable Expectations''' (that others are doing similar things and just need a poke or two in the direction of sharing) and '''Half-Baked Ideas''' (for projects that I personally don't have the time to complete but we can perhaps get a coalition of the wishing-it-would-happen). This idea itself is admittedly half-baked, but (and this is the point) I don't let it stop me.


== originally coming from <code>wikispaces</code> ==
So the radical proposal is this: be irresponsible. Start something you don't intend to finish, just to see how beautiful it is. Pretend you are backed up by a solid movement of joyous people rather than a smattering of bickering and frigid but seemingly well-meaning folks. And it will (maybe) come true. [[User:Xenjacob|xenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 15:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


===Transfer from riters.com===
=== Javascript strategy ===
There are still a couple of pages at [https://web.archive.org/web/20050503032508/http://riters.com:80/microtonal/ http://riters.com/microtonal] that could be copied over if we want this to be the one true wiki. (from Wikispaces)<br>Warning: That site is very old!
Javascript is by default disabled on Mediawiki for security reasons. However, it could be a really really powerful tool for making accessible, interactive explanations for a lot of things. Just as an example, imagine that any number followed by ¢ would automagically create an exemplary audio file like the one linked to at the top of [[octave]]...imagine something like that playing when you hover over the text. Or imagine a [[wikipedia:Lissajous curve|Lissajous curve]] appears in the background when you hover over a just ratio. There are some of us capable in Javascript, and some extant widgets written in Javascript, like [https://ia601408.us.archive.org/1/items/mosedo.html/mosedo.html Billy Stiltner's MOSedo] and [http://untwelve.org/online_tools AKJ's tools]. We need at least a collected xenharmonic Javascript library, and maybe that project can't live here, but it would be nice to see it eventually integrated somehow. [[User:Xenjacob|Xenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]]) 15:51, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
(from User:PiotrGrochowski)


=== Create pages for the Edo recommendation hub page ===
Create pages where you recommend a list of [[edo]]s to beginners.


Follow the standardised structure shown on the page [[Edo recommendation hub page]] to make it easy for readers to compare with the other lists.


----
When your page is done, link it on [[Edo recommendation hub page]].


= Archived from Wikispaces =
And/or create flow charts to help beginners choose edos,  and link those on [[Edo recommendation hub page]].


Below is the original archived discussion from Wikispaces. It's also relevant, delete if done. '''After any user edits made to the below, it will be moved above''', as in the "transfer from riters" situation, which is categorized above due to being edited by [[User:PiotrGrochowski]].
[[Budjarn Lambeth]] 05:46, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
==A To-Do list, all points of discussion==


===Notation===
=== Create a unified "Chains, circles and spirals" page ===
A section on notation


===Improved Yahoo! search engine===
On the [[Discord]] today, [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] posted the following proposal, it received a lot of upvotes:
Now that you can do an advanced search of the tuning (or other) list over the entirety of its life on Yahoo, there is less need to copy things from the tuning list archive. On the other hand, particularly well-written emails might deserve to get their own page. Authors' permissions necessary?


===Database of "microtonal solutions"===
::"Chains are basically 1d lattices, probably something worth mentioning in some form.
not only examples of hardware-software setups as Jon Szanto has repeatedly suggested, but also acoustic solutions, experiencial instrument-making info, a list with the location of every known rare microtonal instrument, and perhaps a way for composers to write for such instruments (providing the curators of them want this)


An instrument-centric approach: [[MicrotonalInstruments|MicrotonalInstruments]]
::Circles and spirals are just different ways to represent chains.


===Improved Listening List===
::Therefore, it would make sense to have a single page about chains, circles and spirals.  
The list of downloadable microtonal sounds is in good shape. It does need people to watch relevant sources (tuning and MMM lists come to mind) and add/update the links. A reviewing or rating system, perhaps also of CD releases, may additionally be helpful.


===Fill out the scale catalogue===
::The merge doesn't have to be done immediately, of course, but I think that's the best course of action in the long term.
Sources for this: all the Yahoo! lists, the Scala archive, original reflection on new and old scales, pages of X.J. Scott, David Finnamore, Tonalsoft...? Have at least one sound example (midi, mp3, ogg...) for each scale, and keep in mind that this wiki allows you to upload files up to 5 MB each.


Ever since learning about the [[MOSScales|MOS scales]] I have desired but not seen a good, thorough introduction to them, or to the two-dimensional method of creating scales.
::Chains are relevant not only in edos, but also in rank-2 regular temperaments, where the octave dimension is collapsed (as is common in a circle of fifths, for that matter), leaving only one other generator to stack, making a single chain. Several temperament pages have such chains, for that matter."


===An FAQ: everyone posts questions, answers.===
[[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 07:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
This could be sufficiently primed by mining the lists. But more importantly it would need to be linked to by a high-seach-engine-ranking page.


===Pages on debates?===
=== Donations link? ===
Do we want to touch the dangerous stuff? JI vs. ET vs. EDO? MMM vs. just plain MM? The point would not be to have another place to play out the old arguments, but to ''make'' something useful out of them.


On the other hand, we ''could'' make pages on points that many can agree on, with the aim of working together to come up with ways to meet our collective goals. The obvious one, originally Harry Partch: Microtonality is overlooked or dismissed all too often, and the best way to counter its detractors is in making good music with it.
I'd like to contribute to support the site. Where can I do this?  I searched (admittedly several weeks ago now) using "contribute", "contribution", "donate", "donation", "subscribe", and "subscription", but did not find anything.  If a page for this (or some functional equivalent) exists (does one exist?), it should have a link from the home page.  


===More on making things: a radical proposal===
[[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio|talk]]) 21:45, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
To me, the wiki as a structure remains an invitation to try new ways to represent information and to cause social interaction to happen. Much of this is overlap with the general Web 2.0 mentality, as well as creeping exhibitionism: why blog or wiki about something you're doing instead of just doing it? What I add to it are '''Unreasonable Expectations''' (that others are doing similar things and just need a poke or two in the direction of sharing) and '''Half-Baked Ideas''' (for projects that I personally don't have the time to complete but we can perhaps get a coalition of the wishing-it-would-happen). This idea itself is admittedly half-baked, but (and this is the point) I don't let it stop me.


So the radical proposal is this: be irresponsible. Start something you don't intend to finish, just to see how beautiful it is. Pretend you are backed up by a solid movement of joyous people rather than a smattering of bickering and frigid but seemingly well-meaning folks. And it will (maybe) come true.
[[Category:Xenharmonic Wiki]]
[[Category:help]]
[[Category:Projects]]
[[Category:projects]]
[[Category:Archive]]
[[Category:wiki]]

Latest revision as of 03:39, 9 April 2025

Hello there! This page is for general discussion on how to improve the wiki. A community wish list of sorts.

If you have an experimental proposal for changing or adding to the wiki in a new way, post it on this page.

If you have a proposal to improve the basic fundamentals of the wiki, post it at: Things to Do.

For bugs, please report them at: Bugs.


See also: Conventions, Projects#WikiProjects, Help:Migration FAQ, as well as Category:Todo and its subcategories.

This page has associated archive pages:

Future of this wiki

Please leave suggestions below. Don't forget to sign them: type ~~~~ after your comment to leave a signature. For example: Mike Battaglia (talk) 12:46, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Improved Yahoo! search engine

Now that you can do an advanced search of the tuning (or other) list over the entirety of its life on Yahoo, there is less need to copy things from the tuning list archive. On the other hand, particularly well-written emails might deserve to get their own page. Authors' permissions necessary? zenjacob (talk 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Database of "microtonal solutions"

Not only examples of hardware-software setups as Jon Szanto has repeatedly suggested, but also acoustic solutions, experiencial instrument-making info, a list with the location of every known rare microtonal instrument, and perhaps a way for composers to write for such instruments (providing the curators of them want this)

An instrument-centric approach: MicrotonalInstruments. zenjacob (talk 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Improved Listening List

The list of downloadable microtonal sounds is in good shape. It does need people to watch relevant sources (tuning and MMM lists come to mind) and add/update the links. A reviewing or rating system, perhaps also of CD releases, may additionally be helpful. zenjacob (talk 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Pages on debates?

Do we want to touch the dangerous stuff? JI vs. ET vs. EDO? MMM vs. just plain MM? The point would not be to have another place to play out the old arguments, but to make something useful out of them.

On the other hand, we could make pages on points that many can agree on, with the aim of working together to come up with ways to meet our collective goals. The obvious one, originally Harry Partch: Microtonality is overlooked or dismissed all too often, and the best way to counter its detractors is in making good music with it. zenjacob (talk 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

More on making things: a radical proposal

To me, the wiki as a structure remains an invitation to try new ways to represent information and to cause social interaction to happen. Much of this is overlap with the general Web 2.0 mentality, as well as creeping exhibitionism: why blog or wiki about something you're doing instead of just doing it? What I add to it are Unreasonable Expectations (that others are doing similar things and just need a poke or two in the direction of sharing) and Half-Baked Ideas (for projects that I personally don't have the time to complete but we can perhaps get a coalition of the wishing-it-would-happen). This idea itself is admittedly half-baked, but (and this is the point) I don't let it stop me.

So the radical proposal is this: be irresponsible. Start something you don't intend to finish, just to see how beautiful it is. Pretend you are backed up by a solid movement of joyous people rather than a smattering of bickering and frigid but seemingly well-meaning folks. And it will (maybe) come true. xenjacob (talk 15:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Javascript strategy

Javascript is by default disabled on Mediawiki for security reasons. However, it could be a really really powerful tool for making accessible, interactive explanations for a lot of things. Just as an example, imagine that any number followed by ¢ would automagically create an exemplary audio file like the one linked to at the top of octave...imagine something like that playing when you hover over the text. Or imagine a Lissajous curve appears in the background when you hover over a just ratio. There are some of us capable in Javascript, and some extant widgets written in Javascript, like Billy Stiltner's MOSedo and AKJ's tools. We need at least a collected xenharmonic Javascript library, and maybe that project can't live here, but it would be nice to see it eventually integrated somehow. Xenjacob (talk) 15:51, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Create pages for the Edo recommendation hub page

Create pages where you recommend a list of edos to beginners.

Follow the standardised structure shown on the page Edo recommendation hub page to make it easy for readers to compare with the other lists.

When your page is done, link it on Edo recommendation hub page.

And/or create flow charts to help beginners choose edos, and link those on Edo recommendation hub page.

Budjarn Lambeth 05:46, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Create a unified "Chains, circles and spirals" page

On the Discord today, Fredg999 posted the following proposal, it received a lot of upvotes:

"Chains are basically 1d lattices, probably something worth mentioning in some form.
Circles and spirals are just different ways to represent chains.
Therefore, it would make sense to have a single page about chains, circles and spirals.
The merge doesn't have to be done immediately, of course, but I think that's the best course of action in the long term.
Chains are relevant not only in edos, but also in rank-2 regular temperaments, where the octave dimension is collapsed (as is common in a circle of fifths, for that matter), leaving only one other generator to stack, making a single chain. Several temperament pages have such chains, for that matter."

BudjarnLambeth (talk) 07:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Donations link?

I'd like to contribute to support the site. Where can I do this? I searched (admittedly several weeks ago now) using "contribute", "contribution", "donate", "donation", "subscribe", and "subscription", but did not find anything. If a page for this (or some functional equivalent) exists (does one exist?), it should have a link from the home page.

Lucius Chiaraviglio (talk) 21:45, 24 March 2025 (UTC)