Talk:33/32

Name order

I'd like to change the order, making al-Farabi (Alpharabius) quarter tone first in the list. I think the math-derived names are less characteristic, and in addition we should be open to non-western music tradition because as they already tried lots of ideas we "now" have. --Xenwolf (talk) 09:35, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Sure, despite that it's a long name (My same complaint about "Hunt minor submediant comma"). FloraC (talk) 14:16, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I've been trying to do something about that. --Xenwolf (talk) 17:33, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

undecimal subminor second

This part was introduced by Aura[1] and reverted by FloraC [2]:

Because of its close proximity to 28/27, form which it differs only by 896/891, one could reasonably argue that 33/32 is the undecimal counterpart to 28/27, particularly if treated as an interval in its own right, in which case it could be analysed as the undecimal subminor second.

I'd like to remember that:
A Revert is felt however often as rude or unfriendly. If one considers that it needs hardly more than one mouse-click, whereas a substantial change costs sometimes very much effort, this becomes understandable.
Maybe the addition proposal should be further discussed? --Xenwolf (talk) 12:24, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

The same arguments seem to apply to 64/33 [3] [4]. --Xenwolf (talk) 12:32, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Right, one thing that needs to be made clear here is that 33/32 really does serve multiple roles. Flora, you may not know this, but blues music does sometimes see 11/8 passed through on the way to roughly 15/11 as a means of further diminishing the flat fifth, before then resolving to 4/3. I know this because I've met a composer who's familiar with this aspect of blues music. When I introduced the idea of 11/8 as a fourth to him, he said he had never thought of resolving it up to 3/2 like I usually do. --Aura (talk) 14:13, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Effectively, this shrinking of the flat fifth results in a just F-Demisharp being higher in pitch than a just G-Sesquiflat. It can be compared to the similar situation in which the Pythagorean Chromatic Semitone is larger than the Pythagorean Diatonic Semitone, with the result that C-Sharp is higher than D-Flat. (comment posted and modified by --Aura (talk) 14:36, 18 September 2020 (UTC))

No offense intended. Indeed I think it's fine to have different views present on the page, but you need to be coherent. To treat 33/32 a type of minor second, you have to further construct that 11/8 is a type of diminished fifth, and the "undecimal comma" in that system would be 8192/8019. So in total four pages need to be changed (33/32, 64/33, 11/8 and 16/11) and one need to be created (8192/8019). FloraC (talk) 15:15, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

For starters, if 33/32 is a type of second, it would be a subminor second, not a minor second. I should also point out 225/128, which serves as an augmented sixth in just Neapolitan Scales due to 256/255 serving as a diminished third. The common factor in all this? Both intervals fall in ranges where intervals are likely to see multiple functions on a fairly regular basis. In contrast, 11/8 more commonly functions as a fourth than as a fifth- in fact, I call it a "paramajor fourth" in a nod to both it's paradiatonic function and the term for that interval found on this page. You are right in pointing out the need for coherency- but does that mean we should then call 3/2 the "diminished sixth"? I mean, such a view is possible when one considers 12edo... On this front, I'm in the process of making a newer version of a guide to the diatonic and paradiatonic functions of various intervals. I showed Xenwolf the preliminary version of this map here. --Aura (talk) 16:04, 18 September 2020 (UTC)