User talk:FloraC: Difference between revisions

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:# You have a point here. I think 5edo should have a place there cuz it's a relatively low-numbered edo that defines the edge of a tuning range (5-odd-limit diamond monotone), making it significant. Some higher edos tho really just clutters the space, esp. those in the flattone or dominant range. Pls note that extensions like flattertone and dominant will eventually get their own pages and own tuning spectra. I can make this quickly happen, if someone asks. But I don't think a simple split of the spectrum is the best solution. For one thing, all the extensions are meantone extensions and all the 5-limit eigeninterval tunings still apply. I think it's a question of which range to put the focus on. For meantone it's prolly best to maintain a higher precision in the meantone range, for flattone higher precision in the flattone range, etc.

: [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

:: Sorry, just now saw this. (Xenharmonic Wiki ''used to'' notify me when somebody added something to a page that have "Watch" checked on, and now it mysteriously quit doing that -- this happening to you too?).

::# Seems to me that if a foreign comma produces a useful eigenmonzo or subset temperament (including part of a well-temperament), it might be worth mentioning.

::# Part of the same thought as above.

::# Part of the same thought as above -- why would someone look for a comma fraction that gets close to an EDO? Well, for starters, if they are making a well-tempered derivative of an EDO, they might want the exact comma fraction (even if a foreign comma) to get the exact eigenmonzo in the desired part of the well-tempered derivative, like quarter-comma or sixth-comma segments of some historical well-temperaments (and historical example of foreign comma: whole schisma in segment of Kirnberger temperament, and if I recall correctly also in somewhat later well-tempered relatives of 12EDO). So by analogy, whole-comma and 3/4-comma (and maybe even 2/3-comma) meantone might be useful for somebody making a well-tempered derivative of 7EDO (and 7WT does exist in world music, in the Republic of Georgia at least, although from what I read they make their well-tempered version differently from this example). Also, if a fractional-comma (even if foreign comma) meantone is very close to an EDO, a rendition of it with the same number of notes per octave can serve as a well-tempered version of an EDO in its own right: historically, 31 notes per octave quarter comma meantone as likely used on the Clavemusicum Omnitonum is close enough to 31EDO that the wolf fifth is tamed down to a dog fifth. Likewise with 12 notes per octave sixth-comma meantone (a more yappy dog, but at least you can play the whole gamut on a common non-extended Halberstadt keyboard). Also related to this: I keep thinking that the line for Pythagorean tuning should also show the alternate name 0-comma meantone, since shoehorning Pythagorean tuning into the 5-limit and higher is of actual musical interest (such as shown on the pages for Pythagorean augmented second and diminished fourth).

::# I think somebody else (or you?) adjusted the "d" warts on those, about which I wasn't sure of since I hadn't figured out that the table was supposed to be focused on septimal meantone rather than a grand unified meantone tuning table.

::# (Foreign comma schisma was eliminated -- but see above about Kirnberger temparment.)

::# No rush. I know how it is, already being up later than I should be doing this.

:: But now I'm thinking it might be good to have a grand unified table of fifths and flattened/sharpened-fifth-based temperaments and their member EDOs. An obvious starting point would be to copy and paste the meantone tuning spectrum, but the table would need to have columns added to designate temperament (since some of these would be non-meantone -- for starters, especially Superpyth and Mavila) and extensions; also equivalent extension names for other meantone-like temperaments. Would require some thought of how to have enough information while keeping it readable for those having non-humongous screens, though (especially when something appears on more than one temperament and/or extension).

:: [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio|talk]]) 14:48, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 105: / Line 105: @@
 :# You have a point here. I think 5edo should have a place there cuz it's a relatively low-numbered edo that defines the edge of a tuning range (5-odd-limit diamond monotone), making it significant. Some higher edos tho really just clutters the space, esp. those in the flattone or dominant range. Pls note that extensions like flattertone and dominant will eventually get their own pages and own tuning spectra. I can make this quickly happen, if someone asks. But I don't think a simple split of the spectrum is the best solution. For one thing, all the extensions are meantone extensions and all the 5-limit eigeninterval tunings still apply. I think it's a question of which range to put the focus on. For meantone it's prolly best to maintain a higher precision in the meantone range, for flattone higher precision in the flattone range, etc.
 : [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
+:: Sorry, just now saw this.  (Xenharmonic Wiki ''used to'' notify me when somebody added something to a page that have "Watch" checked on, and now it mysteriously quit doing that -- this happening to you too?).
+::# Seems to me that if a foreign comma produces a useful eigenmonzo or subset temperament (including part of a well-temperament), it might be worth mentioning.
+::# Part of the same thought as above.
+::# Part of the same thought as above -- why would someone look for a comma fraction that gets close to an EDO?  Well, for starters, if they are making a well-tempered derivative of an EDO, they might want the exact comma fraction (even if a foreign comma) to get the exact eigenmonzo in the desired part of the well-tempered derivative, like quarter-comma or sixth-comma segments of some historical well-temperaments (and historical example of foreign comma:  whole schisma in segment of Kirnberger temperament, and if I recall correctly also in somewhat later well-tempered relatives of 12EDO).  So by analogy, whole-comma and 3/4-comma (and maybe even 2/3-comma) meantone might be useful for somebody making a well-tempered derivative of 7EDO (and 7WT does exist in world music, in the Republic of Georgia at least, although from what I read they make their well-tempered version differently from this example).  Also, if a fractional-comma (even if foreign comma) meantone is very close to an EDO, a rendition of it with the same number of notes per octave can serve as a well-tempered version of an EDO in its own right:  historically, 31 notes per octave quarter comma meantone as likely used on the Clavemusicum Omnitonum is close enough to 31EDO that the wolf fifth is tamed down to a dog fifth.  Likewise with 12 notes per octave sixth-comma meantone (a more yappy dog, but at least you can play the whole gamut on a common non-extended Halberstadt keyboard).  Also related to this:  I keep thinking that the line for Pythagorean tuning should also show the alternate name 0-comma meantone, since shoehorning Pythagorean tuning into the 5-limit and higher is of actual musical interest (such as shown on the pages for Pythagorean augmented second and diminished fourth).
+::# I think somebody else (or you?) adjusted the "d" warts on those, about which I wasn't sure of since I hadn't figured out that the table was supposed to be focused on septimal meantone rather than a grand unified meantone tuning table.
+::# (Foreign comma schisma was eliminated -- but see above about Kirnberger temparment.)
+::# No rush.  I know how it is, already being up later than I should be doing this.
+:: But now I'm thinking it might be good to have a grand unified table of fifths and flattened/sharpened-fifth-based temperaments and their member EDOs.  An obvious starting point would be to copy and paste the meantone tuning spectrum, but the table would need to have columns added to designate temperament (since some of these would be non-meantone -- for starters, especially Superpyth and Mavila) and extensions; also equivalent extension names for other meantone-like temperaments.  Would require some thought of how to have enough information while keeping it readable for those having non-humongous screens, though (especially when something appears on more than one temperament and/or extension).
+:: [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio|talk]]) 14:48, 6 August 2024 (UTC)