Talk:Subgroup temperaments

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Page is too cluttered

We'd better soon split this page into several, probably by subgroups. FloraC (talk) 18:56, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Update: Done. FloraC (talk) 21:04, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

"Breedsmic"

I don't suppose meaningful distinction can be made between "breed" and "breedsmic". Iow both should be referring to the same 7-limit rank-3 temperament, not this fractional subgroup thing. FloraC (talk) 07:24, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

We can find several examples of temperament pairs with different but related names, where they have the same comma basis, differing only by their domain basis. For example, marveltri on this same page makes only the marvel comma 225/224 vanish, which is the same as (7-limit) marvel temperament does; the only difference between the two temperaments is that marveltri's domain is the nonstandard 2.5.9/7 where marvel's domain is the standard 2.5.7.9. So, it's reasonable to think there could be two different names for the temperaments which both make only the breedsma 2401/2400 vanish but have different domain bases: 2.3.5.7 and 2.3.49/5 in this case.

However, "breed" and "breedsmic" cannot be the names that distinguish these two temperaments. "Breedsmic" has a strong claim to them, because "-ma" → "-mic" is typical for deriving a temperament name from a comma name, in this case "breedsma" → "breedsmic". But "breed" also has a strong claim, because it's typical when we have a temperament family based on tempering out a comma to name the temperament which tempers out only that comma be named the same as the family, in this case "breed family" → "breed". Therefore, I agree with you that both of these names must be synonymous.

And I believe they both must at least refer to version of the temperament in the standard domain basis. Possibly both "breed" and "breedsmic" could be used for the one in the nonstandard domain basis, too, in the same way we'd name any such temperament. But because this page already has a separate entry for the particular 2.3.49/5 version of this temperament, however, I don't think that's the right thing to do. This 2.3.49/7 temperament should have a different name. Perhaps we could model it after marveltri. I don't exactly understand the meaning of "tri" as a suffix; perhaps it refers to the shift from 3 to 9. So perhaps this would be "breedsept", on account of the shift from 7 → 49? Something like that, maybe. Like I said, though, I don't understand the "tri" so I defer to anyone who does, or anyone who has a better idea. If we can't come up with something, then "2.3.49/5 breed(smic)" works. --Cmloegcmluin (talk) 18:06, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for supporting my ideas. I don't understand the suffix either. Besides "-tri" I also see "-tet". The only common thing among the "-tet" temps seems to be that they're all kinda supported by 4et. FloraC (talk) 18:34, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Clarification needed

Why is there "clarification needed" on CTE generators of some 3/2-repeating temperaments? I had calculated the generators using sintel's temperament calculator so they should be correct. CompactStar (talk) 23:47, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

There's the distinction of subgroup CTE vs inharmonic CTE for fractional subgroup temperaments. If you happen to know which scheme is used in sintel's calculator feel free to clarify. FloraC (talk) 06:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

By comparing Sintel's calculator and x31eq, I have confirmed Sintel's calculator uses subgroup TE. It is very likely Sintel's calculator is consistent in using subgroup tuning for both TE and CTE, but I cannot confirm this because x31eq does not show CTE.

CompactStar (talk) 07:28, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Alright. That's a good reason to believe it's subgroup CTE. FloraC (talk) 08:19, 30 May 2023 (UTC)