User talk:Xenwolf: Difference between revisions

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Why is there a site named dev.xen.wiki that copies the xenharmonic articles and uses Timeless as the default skin? What's the point of that site? [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 13:10, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

: It's a test page as it seems, there was a [https://www.facebook.com/groups/xenwiki/permalink/2119836524949007/ poll on Facebook which skin to prefer], it's still open, but a majority for Default (=Vector) is on the horizon. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 14:28, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

== Why did you ban me?! ==

Allowing any [[list model]] is the exact opposite of a personal opinion! You are so ironic! [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 07:04, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

: Nobody disallows your opinion. But it's extremely disturbing that you tell people working on this wikis for years that they are childish if they use the simplest thing possible to write lists. Maybe it's a misconception to think that MediaWiki is about coding, it's about writing and communication. ''Did you read'' the help pages in [[wikipedia:Help:List|Wikipedia]] or [[mediawikiwiki:Help:List|MediaWiki]]? What do you think about their expertise? They start with simple lists, later they explain HTML-like features, but they try to keep the wiki text as readable as possible and usable in diffs. Most (if not all lists we used in this wiki were simple enough for ''basic lists''). Show me the actual problem that can be solved via [[template:list]] that cannot be solved via * and #. I mean: ''find'' an existing one, not ''construct'' one. I see a problem in very long lines containing a lot of <code><nowiki></li><li></nowiki></code> markup: they are not easy to change and they have a lower signal-to-noise ratio. And this can be solved by basic lists. <br/> And as to answer your initial question: You try to invent Conventions for the wiki with a lot of effort and when I tried to correct you about this, you show how fast you can revert my justified changes and tell me that I'm vandalizing the wiki? I have not enough time to play this ''I'm better than you'' game. I have the feeling that you don't read carefully what other people write. <br/> Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 13:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

:: It's true that you are worse than me. You are the one trying to push a personal opinion. All [[list model]]s are equally acceptable and a specific one should not be taught in [[:en:Help:Wiki help]], no matter what advantages it might have. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 14:42, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

::: I suggest to set up an own page "Help:Links" or "Help:Link" to contain the options <code><nowiki><ul><li></li></ul></nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki><ol><li></li></ol></nowiki></code> as well as your list template(s), provided that they are introduced with realistic use cases not as "just another opinion". Pages with style A ("my pages") and pages with style B ("your pages") without good reason will cause endless future wars, won't it? As for your claim that preferring * and # would show a "personal opinion": you remember your "unofficial poll"? I hope this helps you understand why a help page should start to teach the simplest way first. And when you claim ''"All [[list model]]s are equally acceptable"'', this is wrong. A list template will have limits, and <code><nowiki><br/></nowiki></code> doesn't build a valid list, right? The HTML list tags are acceptable if they are well structured even in the source code since basically ''everyone'' should be able to edit the wiki not only those who are coding in HTML. Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:37, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

:::: Realistic use cases don't matter. Every single list model is subjectively best, so it's very wrong to include only one in [[:en:Help:Wiki help]]. And all [[list model]]s really are equally acceptable; it's racist to say that a plaintext or defined list model results in an invalid list. And the convention that an edit consisting only of a list model change should not be done is supposed to prevent the edit war bug. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 16:11, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

::::Maybe [[:en:Help:Wiki help#Lists]] should soft redirect to [[:en:List model]], like [[:dev:Help:Wiki help#Lists]] does? Whatever the final solution may be, it definitely must show all [[list model]]s as possibilities that users may use, with no subjective recommendation or anything. The objective advantages and disadvantages are too specific to be shown in [[:en:Help:Wiki help|the xen.wiki school]], and they can always be found out by users later on, so it's best to state all [[list model]]s neutrally. Can't believe you are complaining while doing worse in [[:en:Help:Wiki help]]. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 05:17, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 Why is there a site named dev.xen.wiki that copies the xenharmonic articles and uses Timeless as the default skin? What's the point of that site? [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 13:10, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 : It's a test page as it seems, there was a [https://www.facebook.com/groups/xenwiki/permalink/2119836524949007/ poll on Facebook which skin to prefer], it's still open, but a majority for Default (=Vector) is on the horizon. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 14:28, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
+== Why did you ban me?! ==
+Allowing any [[list model]] is the exact opposite of a personal opinion! You are so ironic! [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 07:04, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
+: Nobody disallows your opinion. But it's extremely disturbing that you tell people working on this wikis for years that they are childish if they use the simplest thing possible to write lists. Maybe it's a misconception to think that MediaWiki is about coding, it's about writing and communication. ''Did you read'' the help pages in [[wikipedia:Help:List|Wikipedia]] or [[mediawikiwiki:Help:List|MediaWiki]]? What do you think about their expertise? They start with simple lists, later they explain HTML-like features, but they try to keep the wiki text as readable as possible and usable in diffs. Most (if not all lists we used in this wiki were simple enough for ''basic lists''). Show me the actual problem that can be solved via [[template:list]] that cannot be solved via * and #. I mean: ''find'' an existing one, not ''construct'' one. I see a problem in very long lines containing a lot of <code><nowiki></li><li></nowiki></code> markup: they are not easy to change and they have a lower signal-to-noise ratio. And this can be solved by basic lists. <br/> And as to answer your initial question: You try to invent Conventions for the wiki with a lot of effort and when I tried to correct you about this, you show how fast you can revert my justified changes and tell me that I'm vandalizing the wiki? I have not enough time to play this ''I'm better than you'' game. I have the feeling that you don't read carefully what other people write. <br/> Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 13:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
+:: It's true that you are worse than me. You are the one trying to push a personal opinion. All [[list model]]s are equally acceptable and a specific one should not be taught in [[:en:Help:Wiki help]], no matter what advantages it might have. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 14:42, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
+::: I suggest to set up an own page "Help:Links" or "Help:Link" to contain the options <code><nowiki><ul><li></li></ul></nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki><ol><li></li></ol></nowiki></code> as well as your list template(s), provided that they are introduced with realistic use cases not as "just another opinion". Pages with style A ("my pages") and pages with style B ("your pages") without good reason will cause endless future wars, won't it? As for your claim that preferring * and # would show a "personal opinion": you remember your "unofficial poll"? I hope this helps you understand why a help page should start to teach the simplest way first. And when you claim ''"All [[list model]]s are equally acceptable"'', this is wrong. A list template will have limits, and <code><nowiki><br/></nowiki></code> doesn't build a valid list, right? The HTML list tags are acceptable if they are well structured even in the source code since basically ''everyone'' should be able to edit the wiki not only those who are coding in HTML. Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:37, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
+:::: Realistic use cases don't matter. Every single list model is subjectively best, so it's very wrong to include only one in [[:en:Help:Wiki help]]. And all [[list model]]s really are equally acceptable; it's racist to say that a plaintext or defined list model results in an invalid list. And the convention that an edit consisting only of a list model change should not be done is supposed to prevent the edit war bug. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 16:11, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
+::::Maybe [[:en:Help:Wiki help#Lists]] should soft redirect to [[:en:List model]], like [[:dev:Help:Wiki help#Lists]] does? Whatever the final solution may be, it definitely must show all [[list model]]s as possibilities that users may use, with no subjective recommendation or anything. The objective advantages and disadvantages are too specific to be shown in [[:en:Help:Wiki help|the xen.wiki school]], and they can always be found out by users later on, so it's best to state all [[list model]]s neutrally. Can't believe you are complaining while doing worse in [[:en:Help:Wiki help]]. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 05:17, 16 October 2018 (UTC)