User:Dummy index/Semitritave: Difference between revisions

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Created page with "{{Infobox Interval | Icon = | Ratio = (3/1)^(1/2) | Monzo = 0 1/2 | Cents = 950.97750 | Name = semitritave }} ==Interval== Semitritave, semitwelfth, square root of 3:1, 951.1..."
 
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{{Infobox Interval
{{Infobox Interval
| Icon =
| Ratio = \sqrt{3/1}
| Ratio = (3/1)^(1/2)
| Monzo = 0 1/2
| Monzo = 0 1/2
| Cents = 950.97750
| Cents = 950.97750
| Name = semitritave
| Name = semitritave
| Calc = sqrt(3/1)
}}
}}
==Interval==
==Interval==
Semitritave, semitwelfth, square root of 3:1, 951.1 cents, is an candidate for "practically [[merciful intonation]]", because it's <math>[1; 1, 2, 1, 2, ...]</math> in continued fraction, have many gradually proximal ratios, 5/3, 7/4, 19/11, 26/15, 71/41, ..., makes rich dissonance.
Semitritave, square root of 3:1, is an [[interseptimal]] interval. It divide [[tritave]] into two equal parts. Every even-numbered [[EDT]] has this interval. It is strongly related to island comma, [[676/675]], via 13-limit approximant 26/15 and 45/26.


==Pseudooctave==
The following table compares selected JI semitwelfth pairs:
Semitritave is available for [[Ed5/3 through ed7/3|pseudooctave]]. Differ from [[acoustic phi]] or natave, two equave makes [[3/1|3:1]], well-known equave.
 
{| class="wikitable"
! | Ratios
! | prime limit
! | distance from 950.9775c
|-
| 125/72, 216/125
| 5
| 4.054
|-
| 7/4, 12/7
| 7
| 17.848
|-
| 140/81, 243/140
| 7
| 3.658
|-
| 512/297, 891/512
| 11
| 8.160
|-
| 1331/768, 2304/1331
| 11
| 1.021
|-
| 26/15, 45/26
| 13
| 1.281
|-
| 85/49, 147/85
| 17
| 2.640
|-
| 19/11, 33/19
| 19
| 4.782
|}
 
==Merciful intonation==
Semitritave is an candidate for "practically [[merciful intonation]]", because it is <math>[1; 1, 2, 1, 2, ...]</math> in continued fraction, have many gradually proximal ratios, 7/4, 19/11, 26/15, 71/41, ..., makes rich dissonance.
 
Approximating it by noble number:
* <math>[1; 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, ...]</math> - 942.5 cents, between 12/7 and 19/11.
* <math>[1; 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, ...]</math> - 950.4 cents, between 45/26 and 71/41.
* <math>[1; 1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, ...]</math> - 954.6 cents, between 26/15 and 33/19.
 
==False octave==
Assuming the semitritave is available for [[Ed5/3 through ed7/3|false octave]]. Differ from [[acoustic phi]] or [[ed7/4]], two equave makes 3:1, well-known equave.


==2*N-edt==
==2*N-edt==
Every even-numbered [[EDT]] has semitritave interval. Another preferrable intervals...
Every even-numbered EDT has semitritave interval. Treating it as equave. Another preferable intervals...


* 5edt - 380 cents major third
* 5edt - 380 cents major third
Line 19: Line 67:
* so 30edt?
* so 30edt?


To do mechanical translation from diatonic scores, "fifth" sound want to be consonance. [[Ed7/4|7/5 is better]], but it makes [[3L 2s]]. 11/8 corresponds meantone region.
To do mechanical translation from diatonic scores, "fifth" sound is preferred to be consonance. 7/5 is better, but it makes "[[3L 2s]]". 11/8 corresponds to micro- meantone region. (for this purpose, 7/5 ≈ 3\5 of ed7/4 and 7/5 ≈ 4\7 of [[ed9/5]] are both extreme...)
 
(more to say, 7/5 results in "[[5L 3s]]", micro- oneirotonic.)
 
{| class="wikitable"
! | N
! | EDT
! | Approx. EDO
! | How "pent"
! | Comments
|-
| 12
| 24edt
| 15edo
| hypopent
| simple. "Fifth" is 7\12edst ≈ 11/8, off by 3 cents.
|-
| 18
| 36edt
| [[23edo and octave stretching|stretched-23edo]]
| anpent
| This have two "fifth," 11\18edst ≈ 7/5 and 10\18edst ≈ 19/14. 6/5 and 7/6 are good.
|-
| 19
| 38edt
| 24edo
| hypopent
| "Fifth" is 11\19edst ≈ 11/8. Can convert easily from 19edo. "minor tenth" (e.g. (19+3+2)\19edst) ~ 2/1. "Major triad" ≈ 16:19:22.
|-
| 23
| 46edt
| 29edo
| anpent
| Two "fifth," 14\23edst ≈ 7/5, 13\23edst ≈ 15/11. 13/11 and 15/13 are precise.
|-
| 26
| 52edt
| 33edo
| hypopent
| Quadruple BP. Micro- flattone (4434443) can't put to use BP intervals. How is 5424542?
|-
| 27
| 54edt
| 34edo
| hyperpent
| Two "fifth," 16\27edst ≈ 18/13 and 15\27edst ≈ 19/14 are precise. Together with 9\27edst ≈ 6/5 and 11\27edst ≈ 5/4, seems good for micro- augene<nowiki>[12]</nowiki>.
|-
| 31
| 62edt
| 39edo
| hypopent
| "Fifth" is 18\31edst ≈ 11/8, and "wolf fifth" is 19\31edst ≈ 7/5. By the way, "upmajor 3rd" and "downminor 3rd" approximate 17/14 and 17/15, where (17/14)*(17/15) = (11/8)*([[1156/1155]]).
|-
| 46
| 92edt
| 58edo
| hyperpent
| Good for micro- sensi. "5/3" ~ 34\46edst ≈ 3/2, "7/5" ~ 22\46edst ≈ 13/10, "6/5" ~ 12\46edst ≈ 15/13, "10/7" ~ 24\46edst ≈ 4/3, ...
|-
| 69
| 138edt
| 87edo
| amphipent
| 40\69edst ≈ 11/8 very precise, and coincidentally contains micro- august. (69=31+19+19=33+12+12+12)
|}
 
==Rank-2 temperaments==
 
===Tribilo as a micromeantone===
{{See also|Tribilo family}}
 
Subgroup: 3.2.11
 
[[Comma list]]: 1771561/1769472
 
[[Sval]] [[mapping]]: [{{val| 2 0 1 }}, {{val| 0 3 8 }}]
 
Sval mapping generators: ~1331/768, ~121/96
 
[[POTE generator]]: ~121/96 = 400.0108 (or ~11/8 = 550.9667)
 
[[Optimal ET sequence]]: b14, b24, b38, b138, b176, b214, b252
 
[[Badness]]: 2.44 × 10<sup>-3</sup>
 
====17-limit====
Subgroup: 3.2.11.13/5.17
 
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_2_11_13%2F5_17&ets=b38_b62&tuning=po
===b24 & b66 as a microaugust===
 
Subgroup: 3.5/2.11/8
 
[[Comma list]]: 15625/15552
 
[[Sval]] [[mapping]]: [{{val| 6 5 2 }}, {{val| 0 0 -1 }}]
 
Sval mapping generators: ~6/5, ~288/275
 
[[Tp tuning|POL2 generator]]: ~288/275 = 82.9018 (or ~11/8 = 551.083)
 
[[Optimal ET sequence]]: b24, b66, b90, b114, b138, b252
 
[[Tp tuning #T2 tuning|RMS error]]:
 
====13-limit====
Subgroup: 3.5/2.16/7.11/8.13/2
 
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_5%2F2_16%2F7_11%2F8_13%2F2&ets=b24_b66p&tuning=po
===b32 & b56 as a microdiminished===
 
Subgroup: 3.16.5.11
 
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_16_5_11&ets=b32_b56&tuning=po
===subgroup 3.7.11 seems to be a lot===
===Vulture (no-fives Buzzard)===
 
Subgroup: 3.2.7
 
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_2_7&ets=b8_b84&tuning=po
===b38 & b54 as a microsensi===
 
Subgroup: 3.2.7.11/5
 
[[Comma list]]: 1605632/1594323, 495616/492075
 
[[Sval]] [[mapping]]: [{{val| 2 2 -2 -3 }}, {{val| 0 -2 15 12 }}]
 
Sval mapping generators: ~704/405, ~896/729
 
[[Tp tuning|POL2 generator]]: ~896/729 = 351.4241 (or ~99/70 = 599.5534)
 
[[Optimal ET sequence]]: b38, b54, b92
 
[[Tp tuning #T2 tuning|RMS error]]:
 
====13-limit====
Subgroup: 3.2.7.11/5.13/5
 
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_2_7_11%2F5_13%2F5&ets=b38_b54&tuning=po
===b26 & b88 as a microoneirotonic===
 
Subgroup: 3.5.7.26
 
[[Comma list]]: 16875/16807, 676/675
 
[[Sval]] [[mapping]]: [{{val| 2 1 2 4 }}, {{val| 0 5 4 5 }}]
 
Sval mapping generators: ~26/15, ~26/21
 
[[POTE generator]]: ~26/21 = 367.0018 (or ~7/5 = 583.9757)
 
[[Optimal ET sequence]]: b10, b16, b26, b62, b88, b114
 
[[Badness]]: 1.43 × 10<sup>-3</sup>
 
====17-limit====
Subgroup: 3.4.5.7.11.26.17
 
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_4_5_7_11_26_17&ets=b26_b88&tuning=po
 
Subgroup: 4.3.5.7.11.26.17
 
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=4_3_5_7_11_26_17&ets=q33r_q111&tuning=po
 
Related temperament: [[mirkat]]
 
==Another periods==
 
<math>\sqrt{3}^{\sqrt{2}} \approx \varphi^{\varphi}</math> (off by 3 cents). However, this does not mean that acoustic phi and semitritave should be used together.
 
Divide or reverse divide by silver [[Metallic MOS]]:<br />
<math>\sqrt{3}^{\sqrt{2} - 1}</math> ≈ 394¢<br />
951¢ => 2 * 394¢ + 1 * 163¢ => 5 * 163¢ + 2 * 68¢<br />
1 * 951¢ + 1 * 394¢ => 3 * 394¢ + 1 * 163¢ => 3 * 231¢ + 4 * 163¢ (3L 4s (1345¢ equivalent))<br />
2 * 951¢ + 1 * 394¢ => 5 * 394¢ + 2 * 163¢ (5L 2s (2296¢ equivalent))<br />
231¢ is near 8/7, 163¢ is near 11/10.<br />
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_8_10_7_11_19&ets=b10_b34&tuning=po
 
===== 3L 4s (1345¢ equivalent) =====
{| class="wikitable"
!
!Cents
!In L's and s's
!Notation
!Approximate ratios<ref>based on treating as a 3.8.10.7.11.19 subgroup; other approaches are possible.</ref>
|-
|unison
|0
|0L + 0s
|C
|1/1
|-
|neutral 2nd
|163.162
|0L + 1s
|vD
|11/10, 10/9, 21/19
|-
|major 2nd
|230.746
|1L + 0s
|D
|8/7, 9/8
|-
|neutral 3rd
|393.908
|1L + 1s
|vE
|5/4, 24/19
|-
|perfect 4th
|557.070
|1L + 2s
|F
|11/8
|-
|perfect 5th
|787.816
|2L + 2s
|G
|30/19, 11/7
|-
|neutral 6th
|950.978
|2L + 3s
|vA
|19/11, 33/19
|-
|neutral 7th
|1181.723
|3L + 3s
|vB
|(2/1)
|-
|octave
|1344.885
|3L + 4s
|C
|24/11
|-
|neutral 9th
|1508.047
|3L + 5s
|vD
|12/5,19/8
|-
|major 9th
|1575.631
|4L + 4s
|D
|(5/2)
|-
|neutral 10th
|1738.793
|4L + 5s
|vE
|30/11,19/7
|-
|perfect 11th
|1901.955
|4L + 6s
|F
|3/1
|}
<references/>
 
2s ≈ 326.324¢ ≈ (6/5),11/9


* 46edt - approximately 29edo. This have two "fifth," 14\23 ≈ 7/5, 13\23 ≈ 15/11.
==Memo==
* 38edt - approximately 24edo. "Fifth" is 11\19 ≈ 11/8. Can convert easily from 19edo.
[http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/pregular.cgi?limit=3.5%2F2.11%2F8&error=5.0 3.5/2.11/8 => 24edt],
* 36edt - approximately [[23edo and octave stretching|stretched 23edo]]. Another candidate with "fifth" 7/5...
[http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/pregular.cgi?limit=3.5.7.13&error=5.0 3.5.7.13 => 30edt],
[http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/pregular.cgi?limit=3.5%2F2.7%2F2&error=5.0 3.5/2.7/2 => 36edt],
[http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/pregular.cgi?limit=3.2.11.17&error=5.0 3.2.11.17 => 38edt],
[http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/pregular.cgi?limit=3.2.11%2F5.13%2F5&error=5.0 3.2.11/5.13/5 => 46edt],
[http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/pregular.cgi?limit=3.10.14.13%2F8.34&error=5.0 3.10.14.13/8.34 => 52edt],
[http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/pregular.cgi?limit=3.2.5.13.17&error=5.0 3.2.5.13.17 => 54edt],
[http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/pregular.cgi?limit=3.10.14.17.11%2F8&error=5.0 3.10.14.17.11/8 => 62edt]

Latest revision as of 05:39, 5 August 2023

Interval information
Expression [math]\displaystyle{ \sqrt{3/1} }[/math]
Monzo [0 1/2
Size in cents 950.9775¢
Name semitritave
Special properties reduced
Open this interval in xen-calc

Interval

Semitritave, square root of 3:1, is an interseptimal interval. It divide tritave into two equal parts. Every even-numbered EDT has this interval. It is strongly related to island comma, 676/675, via 13-limit approximant 26/15 and 45/26.

The following table compares selected JI semitwelfth pairs:

Ratios prime limit distance from 950.9775c
125/72, 216/125 5 4.054
7/4, 12/7 7 17.848
140/81, 243/140 7 3.658
512/297, 891/512 11 8.160
1331/768, 2304/1331 11 1.021
26/15, 45/26 13 1.281
85/49, 147/85 17 2.640
19/11, 33/19 19 4.782

Merciful intonation

Semitritave is an candidate for "practically merciful intonation", because it is [math]\displaystyle{ [1; 1, 2, 1, 2, ...] }[/math] in continued fraction, have many gradually proximal ratios, 7/4, 19/11, 26/15, 71/41, ..., makes rich dissonance.

Approximating it by noble number:

  • [math]\displaystyle{ [1; 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, ...] }[/math] - 942.5 cents, between 12/7 and 19/11.
  • [math]\displaystyle{ [1; 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, ...] }[/math] - 950.4 cents, between 45/26 and 71/41.
  • [math]\displaystyle{ [1; 1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, ...] }[/math] - 954.6 cents, between 26/15 and 33/19.

False octave

Assuming the semitritave is available for false octave. Differ from acoustic phi or ed7/4, two equave makes 3:1, well-known equave.

2*N-edt

Every even-numbered EDT has semitritave interval. Treating it as equave. Another preferable intervals...

  • 5edt - 380 cents major third
  • 6edt - 317 cents minor third
  • so 30edt?

To do mechanical translation from diatonic scores, "fifth" sound is preferred to be consonance. 7/5 is better, but it makes "3L 2s". 11/8 corresponds to micro- meantone region. (for this purpose, 7/5 ≈ 3\5 of ed7/4 and 7/5 ≈ 4\7 of ed9/5 are both extreme...)

(more to say, 7/5 results in "5L 3s", micro- oneirotonic.)

N EDT Approx. EDO How "pent" Comments
12 24edt 15edo hypopent simple. "Fifth" is 7\12edst ≈ 11/8, off by 3 cents.
18 36edt stretched-23edo anpent This have two "fifth," 11\18edst ≈ 7/5 and 10\18edst ≈ 19/14. 6/5 and 7/6 are good.
19 38edt 24edo hypopent "Fifth" is 11\19edst ≈ 11/8. Can convert easily from 19edo. "minor tenth" (e.g. (19+3+2)\19edst) ~ 2/1. "Major triad" ≈ 16:19:22.
23 46edt 29edo anpent Two "fifth," 14\23edst ≈ 7/5, 13\23edst ≈ 15/11. 13/11 and 15/13 are precise.
26 52edt 33edo hypopent Quadruple BP. Micro- flattone (4434443) can't put to use BP intervals. How is 5424542?
27 54edt 34edo hyperpent Two "fifth," 16\27edst ≈ 18/13 and 15\27edst ≈ 19/14 are precise. Together with 9\27edst ≈ 6/5 and 11\27edst ≈ 5/4, seems good for micro- augene[12].
31 62edt 39edo hypopent "Fifth" is 18\31edst ≈ 11/8, and "wolf fifth" is 19\31edst ≈ 7/5. By the way, "upmajor 3rd" and "downminor 3rd" approximate 17/14 and 17/15, where (17/14)*(17/15) = (11/8)*(1156/1155).
46 92edt 58edo hyperpent Good for micro- sensi. "5/3" ~ 34\46edst ≈ 3/2, "7/5" ~ 22\46edst ≈ 13/10, "6/5" ~ 12\46edst ≈ 15/13, "10/7" ~ 24\46edst ≈ 4/3, ...
69 138edt 87edo amphipent 40\69edst ≈ 11/8 very precise, and coincidentally contains micro- august. (69=31+19+19=33+12+12+12)

Rank-2 temperaments

Tribilo as a micromeantone

Subgroup: 3.2.11

Comma list: 1771561/1769472

Sval mapping: [2 0 1], 0 3 8]]

Sval mapping generators: ~1331/768, ~121/96

POTE generator: ~121/96 = 400.0108 (or ~11/8 = 550.9667)

Optimal ET sequence: b14, b24, b38, b138, b176, b214, b252

Badness: 2.44 × 10-3

17-limit

Subgroup: 3.2.11.13/5.17

http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_2_11_13%2F5_17&ets=b38_b62&tuning=po

b24 & b66 as a microaugust

Subgroup: 3.5/2.11/8

Comma list: 15625/15552

Sval mapping: [6 5 2], 0 0 -1]]

Sval mapping generators: ~6/5, ~288/275

POL2 generator: ~288/275 = 82.9018 (or ~11/8 = 551.083)

Optimal ET sequence: b24, b66, b90, b114, b138, b252

RMS error:

13-limit

Subgroup: 3.5/2.16/7.11/8.13/2

http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_5%2F2_16%2F7_11%2F8_13%2F2&ets=b24_b66p&tuning=po

b32 & b56 as a microdiminished

Subgroup: 3.16.5.11

http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_16_5_11&ets=b32_b56&tuning=po

subgroup 3.7.11 seems to be a lot

Vulture (no-fives Buzzard)

Subgroup: 3.2.7

http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_2_7&ets=b8_b84&tuning=po

b38 & b54 as a microsensi

Subgroup: 3.2.7.11/5

Comma list: 1605632/1594323, 495616/492075

Sval mapping: [2 2 -2 -3], 0 -2 15 12]]

Sval mapping generators: ~704/405, ~896/729

POL2 generator: ~896/729 = 351.4241 (or ~99/70 = 599.5534)

Optimal ET sequence: b38, b54, b92

RMS error:

13-limit

Subgroup: 3.2.7.11/5.13/5

http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_2_7_11%2F5_13%2F5&ets=b38_b54&tuning=po

b26 & b88 as a microoneirotonic

Subgroup: 3.5.7.26

Comma list: 16875/16807, 676/675

Sval mapping: [2 1 2 4], 0 5 4 5]]

Sval mapping generators: ~26/15, ~26/21

POTE generator: ~26/21 = 367.0018 (or ~7/5 = 583.9757)

Optimal ET sequence: b10, b16, b26, b62, b88, b114

Badness: 1.43 × 10-3

17-limit

Subgroup: 3.4.5.7.11.26.17

http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_4_5_7_11_26_17&ets=b26_b88&tuning=po

Subgroup: 4.3.5.7.11.26.17

http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=4_3_5_7_11_26_17&ets=q33r_q111&tuning=po

Related temperament: mirkat

Another periods

[math]\displaystyle{ \sqrt{3}^{\sqrt{2}} \approx \varphi^{\varphi} }[/math] (off by 3 cents). However, this does not mean that acoustic phi and semitritave should be used together.

Divide or reverse divide by silver Metallic MOS:
[math]\displaystyle{ \sqrt{3}^{\sqrt{2} - 1} }[/math] ≈ 394¢
951¢ => 2 * 394¢ + 1 * 163¢ => 5 * 163¢ + 2 * 68¢
1 * 951¢ + 1 * 394¢ => 3 * 394¢ + 1 * 163¢ => 3 * 231¢ + 4 * 163¢ (3L 4s (1345¢ equivalent))
2 * 951¢ + 1 * 394¢ => 5 * 394¢ + 2 * 163¢ (5L 2s (2296¢ equivalent))
231¢ is near 8/7, 163¢ is near 11/10.
http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=3_8_10_7_11_19&ets=b10_b34&tuning=po

3L 4s (1345¢ equivalent)
Cents In L's and s's Notation Approximate ratios[1]
unison 0 0L + 0s C 1/1
neutral 2nd 163.162 0L + 1s vD 11/10, 10/9, 21/19
major 2nd 230.746 1L + 0s D 8/7, 9/8
neutral 3rd 393.908 1L + 1s vE 5/4, 24/19
perfect 4th 557.070 1L + 2s F 11/8
perfect 5th 787.816 2L + 2s G 30/19, 11/7
neutral 6th 950.978 2L + 3s vA 19/11, 33/19
neutral 7th 1181.723 3L + 3s vB (2/1)
octave 1344.885 3L + 4s C 24/11
neutral 9th 1508.047 3L + 5s vD 12/5,19/8
major 9th 1575.631 4L + 4s D (5/2)
neutral 10th 1738.793 4L + 5s vE 30/11,19/7
perfect 11th 1901.955 4L + 6s F 3/1
  1. based on treating as a 3.8.10.7.11.19 subgroup; other approaches are possible.

2s ≈ 326.324¢ ≈ (6/5),11/9

Memo

3.5/2.11/8 => 24edt, 3.5.7.13 => 30edt, 3.5/2.7/2 => 36edt, 3.2.11.17 => 38edt, 3.2.11/5.13/5 => 46edt, 3.10.14.13/8.34 => 52edt, 3.2.5.13.17 => 54edt, 3.10.14.17.11/8 => 62edt