Talk:Meet and join: Difference between revisions

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::::::::::: If you want me to respond point by point I will, as some of the things you have just written are I think quite hurtful, but I don't know if it would do any good. I will instead just say that I respect you and the community a great deal, which is why I have spent so much time listening to your feedback and changing things the way you want. The only "inflexibility" here is that there are only 24 hours in a day and I don't have any of those hours available to put into participating in the Discord. Anyway, I hope you understand and would also like to move past this. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 19:16, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::::: I said I wasn't going to respond, but this comment of yours deserves one. Thanks for being the bigger person here, being kind, and extending an olive branch. Your assertions are very fair. I have misinterpreted your tone on many occasions. I have quibbled over language on many occasions. I haven't ''tried'' to be harsh or unfriendly, but if that's how I've come across, then I've got some stuff to work on. I'm certainly no master of self-awareness. I know I get angry and upset and I think sometimes even when I put on my politeness cap, it still bleeds out. You're a smart guy and you can pick up on how I really feel even if I'm trying to control it. I don't think it would do us good to analyze to death everything wrong we've said to each other here, point by point. I agree to let this one go and will try to start the next discussion off on a better foot. Thanks again for all your help on this and countless other things this year. Happy holidays. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 19:38, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

== Suggestion to add a helpful image ==

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: It follows from the basic properties of matrix multiplication. If you have two row vectors v and w, then the null space of the concatenated matrix [v;w] is defined as those vectors mapping to (0,0), which means any such vector needs to map to 0 for both v and w. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 07:38, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

== Link back to new Temperament merging page ==

I've added a new page [[Temperament merging]] that attempts to give a plainer language, more pragmatic take on some concepts that are discussed on this page, supplemented with diagrams and examples. This new page is directed toward a general audience — readers with less mathematical background, but who still want to understand this topic well enough to do something with it. The first line of it links here: "This page gives a general introduction to this concept; for a more mathematical take on this, see [[Meet and join]]."

I'm writing here because I think it'd be great if the Meet and join page returned the favor, linking back to the new Temperament merging page, perhaps also as its first line, something like "This page gives a more mathematical approach to this topic; for a simpler introduction, see [[Temperament merging]]."

If there is agreement, I will not be able to do it myself, because I don't have sufficient privileges to modify this page, since it has been recently restricted.

This pattern of linking via the first lines between the pairs of general and mathematical takes on the same topic is fairly common, by the way. You can find it with [[comma basis]] and [[dual list]], [[mapping]] and [[temperament mapping matrices]], or [[monzo]] and [[monzos and interval space]], for examples.

Anyway, the ink is still quite wet on the new page, so constructive criticism is very welcome there. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 20:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

I've just remembered that at the bottom of the page, there's a See Also section that links to the ampersand operator page which has since been turned into a redirect page to Temperament merging. So if this change is made, that link should be removed, as it'd just be duplicating things. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 06:40, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

== OM should be Om ==

Per discussion here: [[Talk:Trivial_temperament#OM]] it seems like "OM" should actually be capitalized as "Om", because it's a reference to a Hindu concept that is capitalized that way, and also it looks confusingly like two variables O and M being multiplied together. This is the only page besides the [[Trivial temperament]] page where it is used currently. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 20:11, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Also, it's unclear to me why the majority (but not all) of the occurrences of "OM" on this page have the subscript "G". It seems like they can all simply be "Om". --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 06:40, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

== <1/1> would be better than <1> ==

The <...> notation is interesting. But I think it would be clearer if <1/1> was used rather than <1>, to make it clear that this is a frequency ratio, like how you have <225/224> etc., as opposed to logarithmic pitch space where it would be a <0> instead. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 06:57, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

== Mismatched bracket count ==

It looks like in one of the examples at the end, for Meantone & Magic, we've got four angle brackets on the left but only two closing brackets on the right. I think it should be four on both sides. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 06:58, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm just posting here as a reminder to admins about these many suggestions above, in case they all missed them the first time. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 22:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 139: / Line 139: @@
 ::::::::::: If you want me to respond point by point I will, as some of the things you have just written are I think quite hurtful, but I don't know if it would do any good. I will instead just say that I respect you and the community a great deal, which is why I have spent so much time listening to your feedback and changing things the way you want. The only "inflexibility" here is that there are only 24 hours in a day and I don't have any of those hours available to put into participating in the Discord. Anyway, I hope you understand and would also like to move past this. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 19:16, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
+:::::::::::: I said I wasn't going to respond, but this comment of yours deserves one. Thanks for being the bigger person here, being kind, and extending an olive branch. Your assertions are very fair. I have misinterpreted your tone on many occasions. I have quibbled over language on many occasions. I haven't ''tried'' to be harsh or unfriendly, but if that's how I've come across, then I've got some stuff to work on. I'm certainly no master of self-awareness. I know I get angry and upset and I think sometimes even when I put on my politeness cap, it still bleeds out. You're a smart guy and you can pick up on how I really feel even if I'm trying to control it. I don't think it would do us good to analyze to death everything wrong we've said to each other here, point by point. I agree to let this one go and will try to start the next discussion off on a better foot. Thanks again for all your help on this and countless other things this year. Happy holidays. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 19:38, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 == Suggestion to add a helpful image ==
@@ Line 253: / Line 255: @@
 : It follows from the basic properties of matrix multiplication. If you have two row vectors v and w, then the null space of the concatenated matrix [v;w] is defined as those vectors mapping to (0,0), which means any such vector needs to map to 0 for both v and w. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 07:38, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
+== Link back to new Temperament merging page ==
+I've added a new page [[Temperament merging]] that attempts to give a plainer language, more pragmatic take on some concepts that are discussed on this page, supplemented with diagrams and examples. This new page is directed toward a general audience — readers with less mathematical background, but who still want to understand this topic well enough to do something with it. The first line of it links here: "This page gives a general introduction to this concept; for a more mathematical take on this, see [[Meet and join]]."
+I'm writing here because I think it'd be great if the Meet and join page returned the favor, linking back to the new Temperament merging page, perhaps also as its first line, something like "This page gives a more mathematical approach to this topic; for a simpler introduction, see [[Temperament merging]]."
+If there is agreement, I will not be able to do it myself, because I don't have sufficient privileges to modify this page, since it has been recently restricted.
+This pattern of linking via the first lines between the pairs of general and mathematical takes on the same topic is fairly common, by the way. You can find it with [[comma basis]] and [[dual list]], [[mapping]] and [[temperament mapping matrices]], or [[monzo]] and [[monzos and interval space]], for examples.
+Anyway, the ink is still quite wet on the new page, so constructive criticism is very welcome there. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 20:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
+I've just remembered that at the bottom of the page, there's a See Also section that links to the ampersand operator page which has since been turned into a redirect page to Temperament merging. So if this change is made, that link should be removed, as it'd just be duplicating things. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 06:40, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
+== OM should be Om ==
+Per discussion here: [[Talk:Trivial_temperament#OM]] it seems like "OM" should actually be capitalized as "Om", because it's a reference to a Hindu concept that is capitalized that way, and also it looks confusingly like two variables O and M being multiplied together. This is the only page besides the [[Trivial temperament]] page where it is used currently. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 20:11, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
+Also, it's unclear to me why the majority (but not all) of the occurrences of "OM" on this page have the subscript "G". It seems like they can all simply be "Om". --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 06:40, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
+== <1/1> would be better than <1> ==
+The <...> notation is interesting. But I think it would be clearer if <1/1> was used rather than <1>, to make it clear that this is a frequency ratio, like how you have <225/224> etc., as opposed to logarithmic pitch space where it would be a <0> instead. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 06:57, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
+== Mismatched bracket count ==
+It looks like in one of the examples at the end, for Meantone & Magic, we've got four angle brackets on the left but only two closing brackets on the right. I think it should be four on both sides. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 06:58, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
+I'm just posting here as a reminder to admins about these many suggestions above, in case they all missed them the first time. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 22:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)