User:BudjarnLambeth/Brainstorming mostly bad ideas to solve the comma naming debate

With the number of commas described increasing rapidly over the past few years, comma naming has become highly controversial among wiki editors.

This user page is a brainstorming page.

It is not a proposal, it is a brainstorming page.

The point of this user page is to just vomit a bunch of unfiltered ideas onto the screen, in the hopes that some of this might spark other people (not me) to have their own different ideas that might bring the factions back together.

The different factions

I don't really understand all of it, but this is how it looks like from my point of view. This is what I see happening. It may not be what's actually happening:

Group A

Some wiki editors, let's call them "group A", believe common names (e.g. "exampleisma") should not be used at all, and instead, only systematically-generated names like color names or the interval's ratio (if its numerator is <7 digits) should be used.

Group B

Some wiki editors, let's call them "group B", believe common names should be used after all but they should only ever be names that relate to the musical or mathematical properties of the comma in a direct, non-convoluted way. The odyssey comma is an example group B might support, the Category:Commas named after asteroids and the anthill comma are examples they might oppose.

Group C

Some wiki editors, let's call them "group C", believe that convoluted names, or even names that don't relate to a comma's properties at all, are okay too. The only names that are not okay are ones that are:

embarrassing to say when you're reading aloud a music theory paper: ones like "screamapillar", "owowhatsthisma" and "spoob"
easily confused with other theory concepts: ones like "septimal" or "centisma"
offensive or in poor taste like "catcall"
cultural appropriation like "slendro diesis"

Aside from that, any other names are okay. The names must display basic professionalism and sensitivity, and that's enough.

Group D

Some wiki editors, let's call them "group D", believe that even names that are embarrassing to say out loud should be allowed: even names like "screamapillar", "owowhatsthisma" and "spoob" are okay.

This group still usually opposes confusing, offensive or culturally-appropriative names, however, their standards for those things are usually more lenient and they let things slide that groups B and C would not.

Full disclosure: My own feelings

Group C is the position I personally agree with. I find whimsical but professional comma names fun to look at and use. I think the comma names on the wiki are a beautiful little microcosm of human creativity.

Although, ever since I became aware of the existence of groups A and B, I myself now no longer create new comma names, except according to group B's criteria.

This is because I don't feel that I have the right to knowingly make any highly controversial edit, and the act of naming a comma something contrary to group B's guidelines is highly controversial. So I don't do it any more, even though I kinda want to.

In this user page, I will try my best not to privilege group C over the other groups. I will attempt to give each of the groups the time of day.

Possible solutions

A dream solution for group A

Summary: Make common names less visible, make systematic names more visible, ban creation of new common names

All pages about commas are renamed to:
- The ratio if the numerator is <7 digits
- The color name if the numerator is 7+ digits
- The monzo if there is no color name and the numerator is 7+ digits
The names are left on comma pages, but are no longer in bold, and the ratio or color name is listed first
Every page anywhere else on the wiki that mentions a comma by name is edited to mention the ratio or color name instead
Every temperament that is named after a comma is renamed after the comma's color name, and all pages that mention such temperaments are edited to reflect the change
A new wiki policy is introduced: "No new names are to be given to commas anymore. You can add already-existing old names, but you cannot invent your own anymore."
Any commas or temperaments named before 2015 are spared from all of the above changes

A dream solution for group B

Summary: Rename all names that don’t contain a simple reference to the comma’s properties, so that they do contain such a reference

All commas named after asteroids should be renamed to something more relevant to the comma's properties
All commas with names disavowed by the original namer should be renamed to something more relevant to the comma's properties
All commas named after controversial individuals or groups should be renamed to something more relevant to the comma's properties
All commas with intentionally absurd names should be renamed to something more relevant to the comma's properties
All commas with unknown etymologies should have someone attempt to find their etymology, and if they can't find it, rename it to something more relevant to the comma's properties
All commas named after individuals, place names, words from other languages, events, or other reasons should assessed individually to determine whether they meet group B's criteria, if they dont they should be renamed
All temperaments named after the above commas should be renamed to reflect the changes
All pages that mention the above commas or temperaments should be edited to reflect the changes
A new wiki policy is introduced: "All names given or added to commas from this point onwards must relate to the musical or mathematical properties of the comma in a direct, non-convoluted way”
Any commas or temperaments named before 2015 are spared from all of the above changes

A dream solution for group C

Summary: Mostly keep things the same as they are now, rename unprofessional names, codify what is and isn’t okay in a name so it is no longer open for debate (and write those rules forgiving and lenient)

All commas with names disavowed by the original namer should be renamed to something more professional
All commas named after controversial individuals or groups should be renamed to something more professional
All commas with intentionally absurd names should be renamed to something more professional
A new wiki policy is introduced: "An acceptable comma name is one that is not embarrassing to say out loud in a professional scholarly setting, is not easily confused with other theory concepts, is not offensive or in poor taste, and does not misrepresent another culture or musical tradition. Acceptable comma names are encouraged. Unacceptable ones should be renamed."
Any commas or temperaments named before 2015 are spared from all of the above changes

A dream solution for group D

Summary: Allow a free for all of multiple names for every comma, and have the best names emerge over time through survival-of-the-fittest

A "Darwinist model of comma and temperament naming" is introduced
- Under this model, editors are encouraged to create new names for not only new, but also pre-existing commas and temperaments
- Each comma or temperament is allowed up to four names
- The order in which the names are listed at the top of a page should be from the one that has the most incoming links (in "what links here"), to the least. The one that is at the top of the list gets to be the page name. On the first day of every month, all comma pages should be checked to update the list order to reflect current linking
  - 1 external website (not Xen Wiki) mentioning a name is considered equal to 2 incoming links for that name (2 per site not per page)
  - 1 piece of music written using a name in its title, description or elsewhere is considered equal to 10 incoming links for that name
  - External sites and music must be highly visibly listed and linked on the comma or temperament’s page in order to count towards its score (e.g. in a “music” or “further reading” section or something similar)
- On the 1st of January each year, the last-placed name on every page is removed to clear room for new names to enter the ring.
  - If there is a tie for last, then all the names are removed.
  - Unless every single name is tied for first and last, in which case they are all kept.
- What this should all amount to is survival of the fittest name: Names survive by actually being used in the wild, and that is the judge of whether they are worthy or not, not some policy
Any commas or temperaments named before 2015 are to be off-limits to new names and not subjected to the Darwinist model

A democratic solution

Summary: Create two wiki pages, one for voting on name proposals, one on name changes, and let the majority decide.

A new page is created, “Xenharmonic Wiki:Comma name proposals”, similar in layout and functionality to Xenharmonic Wiki:Cross-platform dialogue.
- On Xenharmonic Wiki:Comma name proposals, anyone can edit the page to propose a name for a comma. They must say why they think this name is good.
- Other people can edit the page to “I vote for this name” or “I vote against this name”, and optionally comment why.
- Any time within the first 7 days, the name’s creator may retract it and delete it from the page (but if they change their mind, they must wait 60 days before posting it again, to prevent spam).
- After exactly 7 days have passed, if the name has more yes votes than no, it is officially adopted.
  - Otherwise, it is not adopted and the same name cannot be proposed again for 12 months.
  - If it has no votes at all, yes or no, that counts as a “yes” decision.

A new page is created, “Xenharmonic Wiki:Name change proposals”, similar in layout and functionality to Xenharmonic Wiki:Cross-platform dialogue.
- On Xenharmonic Wiki:Name change proposals, anyone can edit the page to propose to change the name of a comma, a temperament, or any other thing that has a name. They must say why they think this change is good
- Other people can edit the page to “I vote for this change” or “I vote against this change”, and optionally comment why.
- Any time within the first 7 days, the original poster may retract the proposal and delete it from the page (but if they change their mind, they must wait 60 days before posting it again, to prevent spam).
- After exactly 7 days have passed, if the name has more yes votes than no, it is officially adopted.
  - Otherwise, it is not adopted and the same name cannot be proposed again for 12 months.
  - If it has no votes at all, yes or no, than the vote stays open until someone casts a vote, no matter how long that takes: that vote will be the deciding vote.

Both new pages will have a very strict “no making fun, no speaking harshly” rule.
- You can and should criticise names you dislike in a kind, measured and gentle manner.
- You must not speak in a way that will make people feel bad about themselves.
- This is meant to encourage participation in the system and prevent gatekeeping where newcomers feel intimidated and afraid of being made fun of, so they just don’t propose their names.
- (Remember that someone who’s been here for years may still feel like a scared little newcomer: I do. So be gentle to everyone.)

“Yikes. Those all sound horrible.”

That's fair enough. None of these are likely to be well balanced.

Any real solution is probably going to be a fusion of the best bits from the dreams of groups B and C, maybe with a sprinkling of group A or democracy.

The main point of all this was to be a conversation starter.

Specifically, I'm sick to death of all the problem-focused conversations. I want this to start a solution-focused conversation.

Stop telling us what you hate about comma names, tell us what you would like. One of these solutions? Something else?

Describe what you do want to happen. Not what you don't.

Do it on this page's talk page, or on the Discord.