# Talk:17edo/WikispacesArchive

# ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW

**All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.**

Please do not add any new discussion to this archive page.

All new discussion should go on Talk:17edo.

## three commas

How can commas of size near the step size of 17edo be tempered out? I sorted the suspicious three to the end of the table and set it into italic. I think they should be deleted better from this table.

- **xenwolf** June 05, 2011, 11:27:00 AM UTC-0700

Using the stated val, which is the 13-limit 17edo patent val, it is indeed the case that the commas in question are tempered out. I'll add a comment.

- **genewardsmith** June 05, 2011, 11:33:36 AM UTC-0700

If I could only understand it! Would it be possible to make an example for 25/24 in the 17edo here? I thought "tempering out a comma" means only "to make it disappear" - am I really so wrong? ...please be some more patient with me!

- **xenwolf** June 05, 2011, 11:47:32 AM UTC-0700

17-EDO's patent val maps 5/4 to 353 cents, and two of those make up a 3/2. Using the patent val, that equates 25/16 ((5/4)*(5/4)) with 24/16 ((3/2)*(8/8)), meaning 25/24 is tempered out. But if we don't assume the patent val, we will end up with a different comma list. I, for instance, think of 17 as approximating 25 but not 5, and map it to the ~777-cent interval. On that mapping, 25/24 is definitely NOT tempered out.

- **igliashon** September 21, 2011, 01:38:27 PM UTC-0700

So in other words, in that mapping 25 could be considered a "pseudo-prime", since it's not actually a prime number, but its root (5) is not represented.

The 23rd harmonic is also represented too, by the way (23:16 is a little sharp). So we could consider 17edo a 2.3.7.11.13.23.25 temperament. In other words, it's 27-odd limit with no 5, 17, or 19, and with 25 treated as though it were prime.

- **MasonGreen1** March 01, 2016, 07:25:23 PM UTC-0800

Has anyone examined the no-fives "zeta function" tunings? I've seen no-twos tunings evaluated, but not no-fives.

Among no-fives tunings, 17 is pretty good, isn't it? I suspect 12 would still be a zeta edo even if the fifth harmonic were ignored. 17 would probably be the next one after 12. Not sure about 19edo; it doesn't have a good 7 and doesn't match 11 at all, so as a no-fives tuning, it's not so great and 17 is probably better than 19.

- **MasonGreen1** March 01, 2016, 07:30:59 PM UTC-0800

17-comma example: The 17-comma is a difference between 17 fifths (octave reduced) and octave. The fifth of 17-edo is ~4 cents sharp, and stacking 17 of these adds up to ~68 cents, equating it with octave.

- **PiotrGrochowski** October 11, 2016, 06:39:27 AM UTC-0700

Note that you don't need to use the patent val. In patent val, 25/24 is tempered out and 81/80 maps to 1 step. However, there is alternative 5 that maps 25/24 to 2 steps (allowing a neutral third between major and minor third) and tempers out 81/80.

- **PiotrGrochowski** October 14, 2016, 12:14:18 AM UTC-0700

## Approximated Ratios

There are some unusually large ratios being included in the list of 17edo's approximated ratios. I question their relevance for inclusion, as several are too large to be of salience in any otonal or utonal harmonic context. While it's hard to know where exactly to draw the line, I generally place it at the 31st harmonic at the outermost, while preferring to avoid anything beyond the 21st harmonic unless absolutely necessary.

- What? I don't see any primes beyond 17 in that column. PiotrGrochowski (talk) 07:17, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Not even before your edit. PiotrGrochowski (talk) 07:18, 23 September 2018 (UTC)