User:Tremend/WIP: Difference between revisions

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Hey guys! I’m sorry if this turns out pretty bad but I’m pretty tired and its 00:00 right here, but whatever. I owe you guys an apology. I'll agree its my fault for not explaining some of these terms, I can see why you think I'm a troll, but would a troll really do all this? [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bh-HMt5h9HEUdKJr4AMLIFniwtwVMKE4zvvXJe5JSWo/edit?usp=sharing I tried explaining some of these terms earlier] but it seems like I wasn't clear enough. I'm sorry and I apologize, I know my english isn't perfect but I try my best. Before I start, I gotta say, I coined these terms, I named them and I defined them, if I think theyre useful I'll coin them, no matter how silly the name (you can give me feedback or suggestions if you want), and I already was (and am) planning to write a page for each. I'm hoping this will be clear anough, I tried to go for more of a "composer" point of view because I tried to make these terms more composer-friendly, unlike most of the wiki.

~~First, responding to Barium Unque on "wibblepoints" and "adaptive harmony":<blockquote>First of all, hello, Barium~~

Yes, Wibblepoints could parallel how slight pitch adjustments are used in common-practice music, like the third in chords or leading tones in traditional harmony. However, Wibblepoints differ by how I defined it in previous text: they’re intentional, nuanced microtonal reference points that emerge within the ''context of non-standard scales''. Unlike “adaptive harmony” in common practice, where tonal adjustments are largely intuitive, Wibblepoints are EXPLICTLY structured intervals within alternative tunings, they're not merely interpretative, they’re designed into the lattice. I named wibblepoints like that, because as silly as it may sound, "wibble" sounds like a silly word for "slight bounce" or simply a "wiggle".</blockquote>Second, to Midnight Blue:<blockquote>TRG and Harmonic Flow are not the same, I already told you; the scope! But you’re absolutely right that expanding harmonic flow in a JI context can escalate complexity, especially when accumulating comma drift across the scale. The goal here is to establish specific tonal reference points within the harmonic structure where shifts are managed intentionally, preventing excess drift without simply adding more interval generators. Instead, it’s about aligning these key points in the harmonic layout to stabilize transitions, while still allowing for tonal flexibility. While tempered systems like Miracle inherently compress drift for smoother interval alignment, a well-structured JI lattice can use defined tonal anchors to achieve stable transitions and maintain harmonic consistency across the structure. Regardless of lattice structure TRG is not just about accumulating complexity through generator expansion but rather about facilitating smooth transitions across ALL tonalities and ALL harmonies. TRG maintains the overall flow and coherence of harmonic exploration within any tuning system, tempered or even untempered.

Now, on tonality flux, hey, I get where you're coming from, and I totally agree that my initial terms and descriptions could seem mystifying, especially if they seemed to skip over the foundational concepts like tonality flux and the role of kleismas. My intent was never to "reinvent the wheel" but to approach tonal microvariation in a way that could enhance interpretive flexibility and compositional options essentially, as an extension rather than a replacement. For example, my approach to TRG (Tubular Resonant Gradations) and harmonic articulation was to examine how even minor adjustments in pitch or intervallic positioning might influence resonance perception in real time, especially within non-standard lattices. Like I said before, this is composer-centered, focusing on how how composers might experience and navigate these shifts dynamically in a way that feels more tangible in application. I would like to see a world in where xen theory isnt 99.99% theory and 0.001%

actual music.</blockquote>Third:<blockquote>QIS are commas that's right yeah, while the comma is a fixed, quantifiable interval between the scales, minute, controlled adjustments in pitch that occur within a harmonic framework, often manipulating the fixed intervals established by commas.</blockquote>Finally, I'll rewrite the glossary I did before:<blockquote>Tubular Resonant Gradations: <s>Continuous transitions between intervals in a scale that allow for smooth movement without discontinuities, enhancing the fluidity of harmonic connections. TRGs facilitate gradual pitch shifts, which are somewhat different from '''tonality flux''', which describes subtle harmonic changes during voice leading in microtonal contexts. While both deal with smooth transitions, TRG has larger scope, therefore emphasizes the structural continuity of a scale, whereas tonality flux focuses on the movement between chords.</s>

~~</blockquote>~~

===== "But one useful sneak peek of that critique (this is addressed to @Tremend ) is that you do not get to call "pitch microvariation" or "dialectical intonation" (both legitimate terms) using your neologism "articulation", because articulation in music is a precisely defined concept which literally comprises of non-pitch parts of the coloratura, such as dynamics, accent, timbral artifacts, sudden changes in tempo, etc.." - Midnight Blu =====

~~<blockquote>That's a very fair critique, "articulation" is kinda misleading so I'll replace "articulation" with something less ambiguous.~~

I am really grateful for the fact you're being constructive, unlike most of the server. I appreciate that. Since I was aiming to capture subtle changes in pitch I that might be perceived differently in other tuning contexts. I'll just call it:

</blockquote><blockquote>1: Axis Pivoting (previously Flibberous Harmonics):</blockquote>Refers to deliberate harmonic shifts between different tonal axes, such as moving from a 7-limit position along a septimal kleisma to a complex 5-limit variant. Unlike micro-inflection, which suggests a subtle tonal adjustment within a single harmonic framework, axis pivoting reorients the tonal center by moving across different points within the lattice.<blockquote>2: TRGs</blockquote>A smooth, seamless progression between adjacent intervals within a tuning system. Imagine moving from one note to another in a just intonation (JI) lattice, where the ear perceives a gradual “flow” rather than a sharp jump. TRG’s function could be illustrated using a 7-limit tuning where adjacent intervals (like a 5/4 and 6/5) connect smoothly, different from tonality flux (Partch’s term) in that TRG can apply across single or multiple intervals in a chain, while tonality flux specifically addresses voice leading and micro-adjustments within narrow harmonic confines.

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-Hey guys! I’m sorry if this turns out pretty bad but I’m pretty tired and its 00:00 right here, but whatever. I owe you guys an apology. I'll agree its my fault for not explaining some of these terms, I can see why you think I'm a troll, but would a troll really do all this? [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bh-HMt5h9HEUdKJr4AMLIFniwtwVMKE4zvvXJe5JSWo/edit?usp=sharing I tried explaining some of these terms earlier] but it seems like I wasn't clear enough. I'm sorry and I apologize, I know my english isn't perfect but I try my best. Before I start, I gotta say, I coined these terms, I named them and I defined them, if I think theyre useful I'll coin them, no matter how silly the name (you can give me feedback or suggestions if you want), and I already was (and am) planning to write a page for each. I'm hoping this will be clear anough, I tried to go for more of a "composer" point of view because I tried to make these terms more composer-friendly, unlike most of the wiki.
-First, responding to Barium Unque on "wibblepoints" and "adaptive harmony":<blockquote>First of all, hello, Barium
-Yes, Wibblepoints could parallel how slight pitch adjustments are used in common-practice music, like the third in chords or leading tones in traditional harmony. However, Wibblepoints differ by how I defined it in previous text: they’re intentional, nuanced microtonal reference points that emerge within the ''context of non-standard scales''. Unlike “adaptive harmony” in common practice, where tonal adjustments are largely intuitive, Wibblepoints are EXPLICTLY structured intervals within alternative tunings, they're not merely interpretative, they’re designed into the lattice. I named wibblepoints like that, because as silly as it may sound, "wibble" sounds like a silly word for "slight bounce" or simply a "wiggle".</blockquote>Second, to Midnight Blue:<blockquote>TRG and Harmonic Flow are not the same, I already told you; the scope! But you’re absolutely right that expanding harmonic flow in a JI context can escalate complexity, especially when accumulating comma drift across the scale. The goal here is to establish specific tonal reference points within the harmonic structure where shifts are managed intentionally, preventing excess drift without simply adding more interval generators. Instead, it’s about aligning these key points in the harmonic layout to stabilize transitions, while still allowing for tonal flexibility. While tempered systems like Miracle inherently compress drift for smoother interval alignment, a well-structured JI lattice can use defined tonal anchors to achieve stable transitions and maintain harmonic consistency across the structure. Regardless of lattice structure TRG is not just about accumulating complexity through generator expansion but rather about facilitating smooth transitions across ALL tonalities and ALL harmonies. TRG maintains the overall flow and coherence of harmonic exploration within any tuning system, tempered or even untempered.
-Now, on tonality flux, hey, I get where you're coming from, and I totally agree that my initial terms and descriptions could seem mystifying, especially if they seemed to skip over the foundational concepts like tonality flux and the role of kleismas. My intent was never to "reinvent the wheel" but to approach tonal microvariation in a way that could enhance interpretive flexibility and compositional options essentially, as an extension rather than a replacement.  For example, my approach to TRG (Tubular Resonant Gradations) and harmonic articulation was to examine how even minor adjustments in pitch or intervallic positioning might influence resonance perception in real time, especially within non-standard lattices. Like I said before, this is composer-centered, focusing on how how composers might experience and navigate these shifts dynamically in a way that feels more tangible in application. I would like to see a world in where xen theory isnt 99.99% theory and 0.001%
-actual music.</blockquote>Third:<blockquote>QIS are commas that's right yeah, while the comma is a fixed, quantifiable interval between the scales, minute, controlled adjustments in pitch that occur within a harmonic framework, often manipulating the fixed intervals established by commas.</blockquote>Finally, I'll rewrite the glossary I did before:<blockquote>Tubular Resonant Gradations: <s>Continuous transitions between intervals in a scale that allow for smooth movement without discontinuities, enhancing the fluidity of harmonic connections. TRGs facilitate gradual pitch shifts, which are somewhat different from '''tonality flux''', which describes subtle harmonic changes during voice leading in microtonal contexts. While both deal with smooth transitions, TRG has larger scope, therefore emphasizes the structural continuity of a scale, whereas tonality flux focuses on the movement between chords.</s>
-</blockquote>
-===== "But one useful sneak peek of that critique (this is addressed to @Tremend ) is that you do not get to call "pitch microvariation" or "dialectical intonation" (both legitimate terms) using your neologism "articulation", because articulation in music is a precisely defined concept which literally comprises of non-pitch parts of the coloratura, such as dynamics, accent, timbral artifacts, sudden changes in tempo, etc.." -  Midnight Blu =====
-<blockquote>That's a very fair critique, "articulation" is kinda misleading so I'll replace "articulation" with something less ambiguous.
-I am really grateful for the fact you're being constructive, unlike most of the server. I appreciate that. Since I was aiming to capture subtle changes in pitch I that might be perceived differently in other tuning contexts. I'll just call it:
-</blockquote><blockquote>1: Axis Pivoting (previously Flibberous Harmonics):</blockquote>Refers to deliberate harmonic shifts between different tonal axes, such as moving from a 7-limit position along a septimal kleisma to a complex 5-limit variant. Unlike micro-inflection, which suggests a subtle tonal adjustment within a single harmonic framework, axis pivoting reorients the tonal center by moving across different points within the lattice.<blockquote>2: TRGs</blockquote>A smooth, seamless progression between adjacent intervals within a tuning system. Imagine moving from one note to another in a just intonation (JI) lattice, where the ear perceives a gradual “flow” rather than a sharp jump. TRG’s function could be illustrated using a 7-limit tuning where adjacent intervals (like a 5/4 and 6/5) connect smoothly, different from tonality flux (Partch’s term) in that TRG can apply across single or multiple intervals in a chain, while tonality flux specifically addresses voice leading and micro-adjustments within narrow harmonic confines.