5L 2s: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 16:23, 18 November 2009

IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES

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This revision was by author Andrew_Heathwaite and made on 2009-11-18 16:23:25 UTC.

The original revision id was 103742425.

The revision comment was:

The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.

Original Wikitext content:

=5L 2s - "diatonic"= 

One way of distinguishing the "diatonic" scale is by considering it a [[MOSScales|moment of symmetry]] scale produced by a chain of "fifths". This will include [[12edo]]'s diatonic scale along with the Pythagorean diatonic scale and meantone systems, while excluding just intonation scales that use more than one size of "tone".

It may be misleading to call 5L 2s "diatonic," since other scales called diatonic can be arrived at different ways (through just intonation procedures for instance, or with tetrachords). Also, a composer working with a 5L 2s scale may choose to do something very different than typical diatonic music.

==substituting step sizes== 

The 5L 2s MOS scale has this generalized form.
L L s L L L s

Insert 2 for L and 1 for s and you'll get the 12edo diatonic of standard practice.
2 2 1 2 2 2 1

When L=3, s=1, you have [[17edo]]:
3 3 1 3 3 3 1

When L=3, s=2, you have [[19edo]]:
3 3 2 3 3 3 2

When L=4, s=1, you have [[22edo]]:
4 4 1 4 4 4 1

When L=4, s=3, you have [[26edo]]:
4 4 3 4 4 4 3

When L=5, s=1, you have [[27edo]]:
5 5 1 5 5 5 1

When L=5, s=2, you have [[29edo]]:
5 5 2 5 5 5 2

When L=5, s=3, you have [[31edo]]:
5 5 3 5 5 5 3

When L=5, s=4, you have [[33edo]]:
5 5 4 5 5 5 4

So you have scales where L and s are nearly equal, which approach [[7edo]]:
1 1 1 1 1 1 1

And you have scales where s becomes so small it approaches zero, which would give us [[5edo]]:
1 1 0 1 1 1 0 or 1 1 1 1 1

==a continuum of temperaments== 

So if 3\7 (three degrees of 7edo) is at one extreme and 2\5 (two degrees of 5edo) is at the other, all other possible 5L 2s scales exist in a continuum between them. You can chop this continuum up by taking "freshman sums" of the two edges - adding together the numerators, then adding together the denominators. Thus, between 3\7 and 2\5 you have (3+2)\(7+5) = 5\12, five degrees of 12edo:

|| 3\7 ||   ||
||   || 5\12 ||
|| 2\5 ||   ||

If we carry this freshman-summing out a little further, new, larger [[edo]]s pop up in our continuum.

||||||||||||~ generator ||~ in cents ||
|| 3\7 ||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 514.286 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 17\40 || 510.000 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   || 14\33 ||   || 509.091 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 25\59 || 508.475 ||
||   ||   ||   || 11\26 ||   ||   || 507.692 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 30\71 || 507.042 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   || 19\45 ||   || 506.667 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 27\64 || 506.250 ||
||   ||   || 8\19 ||   ||   ||   || 506.263 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 29\69 || 504.348 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   || 21\50 ||   || 504.000 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 34\81 || 503.704 ||
||   ||   ||   || 13\31 ||   ||   || 503.226 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 31\74 || 502.703 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   || 18\43 ||   || 502.326 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 23\55 || 501.818 ||
||   || 5\12 ||   ||   ||   ||   || 500.000 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 22\53 || 498.113 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   || 17\41 ||   || 497.591 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 29\70 || 497.143 ||
||   ||   ||   || 12\29 ||   ||   || 496.552 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 31\75 || 496.000 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   || 19\46 ||   || 495.652 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 26\63 || 495.238 ||
||   ||   || 7\17 ||   ||   ||   || 494.118 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 23\56 || 492.857 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   || 16\39 ||   || 492.308 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 25\61 || 491.803 ||
||   ||   ||   || 9\22 ||   ||   || 490.909 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 20\49 || 489.796 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   || 11\27 ||   || 488.889 ||
||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 13\32 || 487.500 ||
|| 2\5 ||   ||   ||   ||   ||   || 480.000 ||

Temperaments above 5\12 on this chart are called "negative temperaments" (as they lessen the size of the fifth) and include meantone systems such as 1/3-comma (close to 8\19) and 1/4-comma (close to 13\31). As these tunings approach 3\7, the majors become flatter and the minors become sharper.

Temperaments below 5/12 on this chart are called "positive temperaments" and they include Pythagorean tuning itself (well approximated by 22\53) as well as superpyth temperaments such as 7\17 and 9\22. As these tunings approach 2\5, the majors become sharper and the minors become flatter. Around 9\22, the thirds fall closer to 7-limit than 5-limit intervals: 7:6 and 9:7 as opposed to 6:5 and 5:4.

[[image:5L2s.jpg]]

5L 2s contains the pentatonic MOS [[2L 3s]] and (with the sole exception of the 5L 2s of 12edo) is itself contained in a dodecaphonic MOS: either [[7L 5s]] or [[5L 7s]].

Original HTML content:

<html><head><title>5L 2s</title></head><body><!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:0:&lt;h1&gt; --><h1 id="toc0"><a name="x5L 2s - &quot;diatonic&quot;"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:0 -->5L 2s - &quot;diatonic&quot;</h1>
 <br />
One way of distinguishing the &quot;diatonic&quot; scale is by considering it a <a class="wiki_link" href="/MOSScales">moment of symmetry</a> scale produced by a chain of &quot;fifths&quot;. This will include <a class="wiki_link" href="/12edo">12edo</a>'s diatonic scale along with the Pythagorean diatonic scale and meantone systems, while excluding just intonation scales that use more than one size of &quot;tone&quot;.<br />
<br />
It may be misleading to call 5L 2s &quot;diatonic,&quot; since other scales called diatonic can be arrived at different ways (through just intonation procedures for instance, or with tetrachords). Also, a composer working with a 5L 2s scale may choose to do something very different than typical diatonic music.<br />
<br />
<!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:2:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc1"><a name="x5L 2s - &quot;diatonic&quot;-substituting step sizes"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:2 -->substituting step sizes</h2>
 <br />
The 5L 2s MOS scale has this generalized form.<br />
L L s L L L s<br />
<br />
Insert 2 for L and 1 for s and you'll get the 12edo diatonic of standard practice.<br />
2 2 1 2 2 2 1<br />
<br />
When L=3, s=1, you have <a class="wiki_link" href="/17edo">17edo</a>:<br />
3 3 1 3 3 3 1<br />
<br />
When L=3, s=2, you have <a class="wiki_link" href="/19edo">19edo</a>:<br />
3 3 2 3 3 3 2<br />
<br />
When L=4, s=1, you have <a class="wiki_link" href="/22edo">22edo</a>:<br />
4 4 1 4 4 4 1<br />
<br />
When L=4, s=3, you have <a class="wiki_link" href="/26edo">26edo</a>:<br />
4 4 3 4 4 4 3<br />
<br />
When L=5, s=1, you have <a class="wiki_link" href="/27edo">27edo</a>:<br />
5 5 1 5 5 5 1<br />
<br />
When L=5, s=2, you have <a class="wiki_link" href="/29edo">29edo</a>:<br />
5 5 2 5 5 5 2<br />
<br />
When L=5, s=3, you have <a class="wiki_link" href="/31edo">31edo</a>:<br />
5 5 3 5 5 5 3<br />
<br />
When L=5, s=4, you have <a class="wiki_link" href="/33edo">33edo</a>:<br />
5 5 4 5 5 5 4<br />
<br />
So you have scales where L and s are nearly equal, which approach <a class="wiki_link" href="/7edo">7edo</a>:<br />
1 1 1 1 1 1 1<br />
<br />
And you have scales where s becomes so small it approaches zero, which would give us <a class="wiki_link" href="/5edo">5edo</a>:<br />
1 1 0 1 1 1 0 or 1 1 1 1 1<br />
<br />
<!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:4:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc2"><a name="x5L 2s - &quot;diatonic&quot;-a continuum of temperaments"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:4 -->a continuum of temperaments</h2>
 <br />
So if 3\7 (three degrees of 7edo) is at one extreme and 2\5 (two degrees of 5edo) is at the other, all other possible 5L 2s scales exist in a continuum between them. You can chop this continuum up by taking &quot;freshman sums&quot; of the two edges - adding together the numerators, then adding together the denominators. Thus, between 3\7 and 2\5 you have (3+2)\(7+5) = 5\12, five degrees of 12edo:<br />
<br />


<table class="wiki_table">
    <tr>
        <td>3\7<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>5\12<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td>2\5<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
    </tr>
</table>

<br />
If we carry this freshman-summing out a little further, new, larger <a class="wiki_link" href="/edo">edo</a>s pop up in our continuum.<br />
<br />


<table class="wiki_table">
    <tr>
        <th colspan="6">generator<br />
</th>
        <th>in cents<br />
</th>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td>3\7<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>514.286<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>17\40<br />
</td>
        <td>510.000<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>14\33<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>509.091<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>25\59<br />
</td>
        <td>508.475<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>11\26<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>507.692<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>30\71<br />
</td>
        <td>507.042<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>19\45<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>506.667<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>27\64<br />
</td>
        <td>506.250<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>8\19<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>506.263<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>29\69<br />
</td>
        <td>504.348<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>21\50<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>504.000<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>34\81<br />
</td>
        <td>503.704<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>13\31<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>503.226<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>31\74<br />
</td>
        <td>502.703<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>18\43<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>502.326<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>23\55<br />
</td>
        <td>501.818<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>5\12<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>500.000<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>22\53<br />
</td>
        <td>498.113<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>17\41<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>497.591<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>29\70<br />
</td>
        <td>497.143<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>12\29<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>496.552<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>31\75<br />
</td>
        <td>496.000<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>19\46<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>495.652<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>26\63<br />
</td>
        <td>495.238<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>7\17<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>494.118<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>23\56<br />
</td>
        <td>492.857<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>16\39<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>492.308<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>25\61<br />
</td>
        <td>491.803<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>9\22<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>490.909<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>20\49<br />
</td>
        <td>489.796<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>11\27<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>488.889<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>13\32<br />
</td>
        <td>487.500<br />
</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
        <td>2\5<br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td><br />
</td>
        <td>480.000<br />
</td>
    </tr>
</table>

<br />
Temperaments above 5\12 on this chart are called &quot;negative temperaments&quot; (as they lessen the size of the fifth) and include meantone systems such as 1/3-comma (close to 8\19) and 1/4-comma (close to 13\31). As these tunings approach 3\7, the majors become flatter and the minors become sharper.<br />
<br />
Temperaments below 5/12 on this chart are called &quot;positive temperaments&quot; and they include Pythagorean tuning itself (well approximated by 22\53) as well as superpyth temperaments such as 7\17 and 9\22. As these tunings approach 2\5, the majors become sharper and the minors become flatter. Around 9\22, the thirds fall closer to 7-limit than 5-limit intervals: 7:6 and 9:7 as opposed to 6:5 and 5:4.<br />
<br />
<!-- ws:start:WikiTextLocalImageRule:562:&lt;img src=&quot;/file/view/5L2s.jpg/103741463/5L2s.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; title=&quot;&quot; /&gt; --><img src="/file/view/5L2s.jpg/103741463/5L2s.jpg" alt="5L2s.jpg" title="5L2s.jpg" /><!-- ws:end:WikiTextLocalImageRule:562 --><br />
<br />
5L 2s contains the pentatonic MOS <a class="wiki_link" href="/2L%203s">2L 3s</a> and (with the sole exception of the 5L 2s of 12edo) is itself contained in a dodecaphonic MOS: either <a class="wiki_link" href="/7L%205s">7L 5s</a> or <a class="wiki_link" href="/5L%207s">5L 7s</a>.</body></html>

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 <h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
 This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
-: This revision was by author [[User:Andrew_Heathwaite|Andrew_Heathwaite]] and made on <tt>2009-11-05 23:25:03 UTC</tt>.<br>
+: This revision was by author [[User:Andrew_Heathwaite|Andrew_Heathwaite]] and made on <tt>2009-11-18 16:23:25 UTC</tt>.<br>
-: The original revision id was <tt>100666597</tt>.<br>
+: The original revision id was <tt>103742425</tt>.<br>
 : The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
 The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
@@ Line 99: / Line 99: @@
 Temperaments below 5/12 on this chart are called "positive temperaments" and they include Pythagorean tuning itself (well approximated by 22\53) as well as superpyth temperaments such as 7\17 and 9\22. As these tunings approach 2\5, the majors become sharper and the minors become flatter. Around 9\22, the thirds fall closer to 7-limit than 5-limit intervals: 7:6 and 9:7 as opposed to 6:5 and 5:4.
-L 2s contains the pentatonic MOS [[2L 3s]] and (except for that in 12edo) is itself contained in a dodecaphonic MOS: either [[7L 5s]] or [[5L 7s]].</pre></div>
+[[image:5L2s.jpg]]
+L 2s contains the pentatonic MOS [[2L 3s]] and (with the sole exception of the 5L 2s of 12edo) is itself contained in a dodecaphonic MOS: either [[7L 5s]] or [[5L 7s]].</pre></div>
 <h4>Original HTML content:</h4>
 <div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;width:200%;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html">&lt;html&gt;&lt;head&gt;&lt;title&gt;5L 2s&lt;/title&gt;&lt;/head&gt;&lt;body&gt;&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:0:&amp;lt;h1&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h1 id="toc0"&gt;&lt;a name="x5L 2s - &amp;quot;diatonic&amp;quot;"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:0 --&gt;5L 2s - &amp;quot;diatonic&amp;quot;&lt;/h1&gt;
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 Temperaments below 5/12 on this chart are called &amp;quot;positive temperaments&amp;quot; and they include Pythagorean tuning itself (well approximated by 22\53) as well as superpyth temperaments such as 7\17 and 9\22. As these tunings approach 2\5, the majors become sharper and the minors become flatter. Around 9\22, the thirds fall closer to 7-limit than 5-limit intervals: 7:6 and 9:7 as opposed to 6:5 and 5:4.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
-L 2s contains the pentatonic MOS &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/2L%203s"&gt;2L 3s&lt;/a&gt; and (except for that in 12edo) is itself contained in a dodecaphonic MOS: either &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/7L%205s"&gt;7L 5s&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/5L%207s"&gt;5L 7s&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</pre></div>
+&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextLocalImageRule:562:&amp;lt;img src=&amp;quot;/file/view/5L2s.jpg/103741463/5L2s.jpg&amp;quot; alt=&amp;quot;&amp;quot; title=&amp;quot;&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;img src="/file/view/5L2s.jpg/103741463/5L2s.jpg" alt="5L2s.jpg" title="5L2s.jpg" /&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextLocalImageRule:562 --&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
+&lt;br /&gt;
+L 2s contains the pentatonic MOS &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/2L%203s"&gt;2L 3s&lt;/a&gt; and (with the sole exception of the 5L 2s of 12edo) is itself contained in a dodecaphonic MOS: either &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/7L%205s"&gt;7L 5s&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/5L%207s"&gt;5L 7s&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</pre></div>

5L 2s: Difference between revisions

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