@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{Archives}}
 == Automatic color names? ==
@@ Line 4: / Line 5: @@
 : Oops, I hadn’t read the description well enough! The matter is way simpler and there is no guessing at all. --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 20:10, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
+: A potential project relating to color names would be a Lua implementation to automatically find the color name of an interval, given a ratio or a monzo. [[Xen-calc]] uses the microtonal-utils Javascript library, so maybe a translation of the relevant JS code could work, although it should be noted that the Lua modules on this wiki do not necessarily match similar features that could be found in that library. [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 20:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 == Add to the navbar ==
@@ Line 10: / Line 12: @@
 : We'll do that soon. But I think that we should first have to clarify its structure. I'd prefer dedicated pages one per task (maybe as sub pages). We should have a handful of clearly defined projects available before we link this overview in the navigation. The style of the existing ones will silently work as a blueprint for future projects, so we better limit confusion to a minimum. a bit of styling (for the intro in the header) could also help to make this site as inviting as possible. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:40, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 :: Agree. Also I agree subpages are a clean way. Some of them may be transcluded, other just linked to?.. Intro styling is good but here I think I used all my style mana on the todo template today, so better someone else. :D --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 21:53, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 ::: I think we've come a long way and can afford a break, and it's also good to keep gaining distance so as not to get stuck. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:59, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 :::: 🤝
 :::: BTW would be nice to make something to enter a couple of frequent emoji from somewhere near post edit. Does MediaWiki has a toolbar or something for this case?.. --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 22:05, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
+:: It seems the "one page per project" structure was never adopted, instead leading to a structure where project summaries are placed on the main page and discussions take place in the talk page. I think this structure seems to work well for now, given that many projects are temporary and can be archived more easily instead of creating lots of different pages about old projects. If we're to keep this structure, we might need to clarify it and uniformize the existing topics. [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 20:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 == <code>Template:Stub</code> ==
@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 : Before thinking about an appropriate [[Template:Stub]], I think [[:Category:Todo]] is worth a look, as well as its sub categories, these category developed out of wikispaces tags and are maybe more specific then just ''stub''. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:24, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 :: Oh, this is a treasure! But a visual rectangular reminder may still be useful? Let it be tunable to include the subcategory of Todo one wants to apply. How do you think? I’ll experiment with that in a subspace. --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 18:53, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 ::: The template with an example of how it looks: [[User:Arseniiv/TodoTest]]. It seems to apply the category correctly. Maybe that can find some use still, but if not, no problem. --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 19:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
 :::: I moved this discussion from [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Things to do]] to here, since it's not decided yet whether it should go into the list. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 12:42, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
 ::::: Now that two days have passed and no new things to add or remove arose, maybe we should now migrate the Todo template to the template namespace and start sticking it everywhere :) Also it’s very nice [[Template:Infobox interval]] automatically adds todo categories, I think this is a way to go with other specialized templates, should they apper later. --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 14:28, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
+: For reference, some time ago I moved [[:Category:Stub]] to [[:Category:Stubs]] (by WP:SETCAT). I also create [[Template:Mbox]], which can be used for various kinds of message boxes, and now [[Template:Stub]] uses it. I haven't touched [[Template:Todo]] yet, and for now it's not a bad thing to have a distinction between reader-oriented boxes and editor-oriented boxes, but we might want to uniformize that later. [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 20:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
-== Infobox for EDO pages ==
-Let’s list what should be present in the template:
-* step count (<code>steps</code>)
-* period? (for EDT and several others?)
-*: [Xenwolf: no need, consider other templates for other EDs]
-* <code>step size</code>
-*: [Xenwolf: size alone isn't clear]
-* commas tempered out
-*: [FloraC: too many stuff]
-* notable commas not tempered out? (possibly with an example of distinguished JI intervals?)
-*: [FloraC: too many stuff]
-* family?
-* JI subgroup represented fairly well? (and a patent val?)
-* notable modes?
-*: [FloraC: no consensus]
-*: [Arseniiv: now I come to think including entire modes would also bloat the table]
-* related EDOs? (maybe more specific relations, like “refines 11edo”?)
-*: [Xenwolf: include predecessor and successor EDOs]
-Thoughts? --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 14:44, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
-: The parameters <code>step count</code> (or <code>step size</code>) and <code>size</code> seem indisputable to me, EDO implies 2/1 as <code>period</code> (I'd consider to make other templates for other EDs). What about prime factorization? Relates would be great for navigational purposes (for instance predecessor and successor). As far as the parameters can be filled without headaches and without edit wars they should be included. Maybe we can get a community process started about that. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:31, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
-:: Do you mean prime factorization for <code>steps</code>? --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 19:39, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
-:: Writing only <code>size</code> was a mistake: I corrected that in may comment and in the "working copy" on top. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:42, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
-::: Forgot to add yesterday: what do you think about next/previous zeta EDOs (all three kinds of them)? Though all “sequential related page links” should go at the bottom of the template plaque to not steal attention from the properties of the EDO itself. --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 14:30, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
-: I'm afraid <code>Commas tempered out</code> and <code>Commas not tempered out</code> are too many stuff. And there's no consensus what constitutes "notable". [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:47, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
-:: (To all:) Is there a consensus about patent vals for EDOs? I seem to remember in several cases there were at least two vals which would be as good, so I don’t know if it’s a good for the template. Also the same about well-representedness of JI subgroups.
-:: I added your comments to the list above so they won’t be forgotten if someone would take just the list and make something! --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 19:39, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
-::: Which val is deemed useful is a subjective matter, but the patent val is rigorously defined. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 11:17, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::: So <code>patent val</code> should be added. Am I right in assuming that consistency of intervals relates to it? Can also a subgroup be deduced from it? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 11:33, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
-::::: The relation between consistency and the patent val seems indirect to me. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 11:59, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
-: I suggest listing the # of edosteps that the 3-limit M2 and m2 span. If the best 3/2 of n-edo is m/n, that would be 2m-n and 3n-5m. This instantly gives you the "flavor" of the edo. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 02:35, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
-:: Maybe A1 and m2. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:22, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
-::: @TallKite, @FloraC, Isn't ''A1 := M2 - m2''? Why not all three? Maybe also ''m'' itself that should probably better be renamed in, say, ''f'' or ''fifth''? <br> Of course a collection of name-values pairs will not look that great, but maybe something like ''M2=m2+A1:'' (as label) and ''3=2+1'' (as value), as a rough sketch? <br> --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 10:03, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::: I could imagine that the 3-limit inconsistency of certain EDOs could diminish the usefulness of this otherwise very illustrative approach. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 10:03, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
-::: Yes, A1 = M2 - m2, so A1 isn't needed. Sure, we could have all three. If we have only two, M2 and m2 are the most useful for finding your way around a microtonal guitar. For example, hand a guitarist a 31-edo guitar tuned EADGBE and say M2 = 5 frets and m2 = 3 frets, and they can figure it out pretty quickly.
-::: And yes, for certain edos like 6-edo, it's not that helpful. But for most edos it's very useful, so we might as well include it for all of them. Even if the M2 is not the same as the best approximation of 9/8. Because M2 is always the distance between the best approximation of 4/3 and the best approximation of 3/2. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 07:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::: The reason why I favor A1 over M2 is that addition is easier than subtraction. Once you have A1 and m2, M2 is obvious; not so the other way around. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 06:49, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
-: To all: Inthar has got [[Template:Infobox ET]] constructed and has implemented it(!) in many edo pages. Let's move on to [[Template talk:Infobox ET]]. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 06:49, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
-:: I am really impressed, but rather not in a positive sense. I left a ping on the user discussion and the template discussion. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 09:18, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
-== Relations of various interval categories ==
-There are [[:Category:Interval]], [[:Category:Just interval]], [[:Category:Interval ratio]] and [[:Category:Ratio]] with different content of ''m''/''n'' pages like [[3/2]]. Maybe someone knows if there was an intention behind that?
-Also there seems to be a forgotten todo in the description of [[:Category:Intervals]]. --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 16:06, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
-: Good catch! This is caused by the migration procedure (from wikispaces to MediaWiki), categories were retrieved from tags. Tags are much more lightweight and community-driven so there is not much consistency. The important question is how to name it, which has to be wisely decided considering relating (super, sub, sibling) categories. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:21, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
-:: Yeah I agree. AFAIU, no one here needs ratios by themselves, mathematically, so we would have a simple inclusion ''Just interval'' inside ''Interval'', taking both existing categories and reshuffling which page belongs where: rational intervals into ''Just interval'', and remaining few irrational intervals may reside directly in ''Interval'' without their own subcategory. (FTR [[:Category:Comma]] stays as it was.) Now we need more opinions! --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 18:59, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
-::: I agree. I think [[:Category:Just interval]] is the best solution here (a more technical term would be something like <code>Category:Interval page</code>, but I prefer your - more pragmatic - solution). --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 17:41, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
-::: I suggest the category "ratio" should remain and "just interval" should go, for there's no consensus what "just" really means. I once talked about the concept of "just" in the FB group. Obviously there are people who argue:
-:::# Rational isn't synonymous with just;
-:::# Justness is a perceptual property and has nothing to do with the rationality of an interval;
-:::# Justness contrasts with wolfness;
-:::# The point of rationality of an interval is neutralized by the Gabor limit. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:02, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::: What about "rational interval" then? It's a technical term that doesn't imply musical quality. I find "interval" and "ratio" too common terms, I'd like to discuss this first before we do a lot of category changes. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
-::::: My previous suggestion takes the extent of changes into account. If there's no problem with that, I think "rational interval" is better. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 19:04, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::::: I guess ''Ratio'' may be simply moved to the new one? Ah, but page texts won’t change with that… Looks like work for a bot. But it seems there will be lots of work anyway, as sometimes for example there are several categories applied at the same time. (When I saw that, I didn’t touch it exactly because of undecidedness which ones are suited better.) --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 19:17, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
-::::::: As we seem to agree about the pragmatical usefulness of "Rational interval", I'd say we could add this without problems to uncategorized pages, we could also replace "interval ratio" with it (this one was introduced by me after the migration to MediaWiki to combine "interval" and "ratio", two tags from the wikispaces era - tags were single words). The same would apply to pages that are categorized as both "interval" and "ratio", or written in a more
-:::::::; compact form&#58;
-:::::::* (none) &rarr; "Rational interval"
-:::::::* "Interval ratio" &rarr; "Rational interval"
-:::::::* "Interval" and "Ratio" &rarr; "Rational interval"
-::::::: But nothing to be done right now. Should we try to get [[User:Aura|Aura]], [[User:CritDeathX|CritDeathX]], [[User:IlL|IlL]], [[User:TallKite|TallKite]], and [[User:Yourmusic Productions|Yourmusic Productions]] involved? What do you think? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 19:51, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::::::: Of course all active people should have a say, I think. :) Also they should see this new page for discussing overarching plans; maybe few of them had still seen it? --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 20:36, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
-::::::::: I do think that a "Rational Interval" is a good idea for a category, and as a target for merging a number of the various categories.  However, "Interval" should remain its own category, with "Rational Interval" as the subcategory. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 13:34, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::::::::: @Aura: What you just suggested is already planned: keep [[:Category:Interval]] and placing [[:Category:Rational interval]] into it. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:06, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
-::::::::: I don't have a strong opinion. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 07:11, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
-::::::::: I'd incline towards the shortest unambiguous tags possible. The longer they are, the more likely people are to forget or misspell them, resulting in pages falling through the cracks. [[User:Yourmusic Productions|Yourmusic Productions]] ([[User talk:Yourmusic Productions|talk]]) 10:30, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::::::::: @Yourmusic Productions: Sorry that I have to correct you about a misconception. There is no ''tag'' feature available in MediaWiki. The ''category'' feature is comparable but not as lightweight and not combinable (see below). Since the term ''Just'' is disputable and ''Interval'' and ''Ratio'' so little significant, we are searching for a ''category name'' that will do a good job in containing all the pages about individual intervals. MediaWiki unfortunately does not support selecting pages by a logic combination of categories (like <code> Interval AND Ratio AND Just</code>), so single words as category names will not be as usable as you might imagine. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 11:27, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
-::::::::: I think it'd be good if we have Interval as a regular category with Rational Interval as a subcategory. Its possible we could include irrational intervals on the wiki, though at the moment it doesn't seem clear when we would need those pages. --[[User:CritDeathX|CritDeathX]] ([[User talk:CritDeathX|talk]]) 00:37, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
-::::: I agree with the main ideas for "Rational interval", although I would advise going for "Rational intervals" (plural) instead, since this would be a [[Wikipedia:WP:SETCAT|set category]]. Considering that the category is still unused at this point, I will take the chance of renaming the category into its plural form, and we can revert if necessary.
-::::: Relatedly, the "Interval" category should probably be called "Intervals", but that category already exists although it is proposed to be merged elsewhere, so I will proceed to freeing that category by completing the current suggested merge.
-::::: I also agree that moving pages to the right categories would be the work for a bot, and I'd be glad to help in this matter if there is anything I can do. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 16:28, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
-:::::: Sure. Now, is it good to add the category to [[Template:Infobox Interval]]? Shall we get this started any time? [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 19:52, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
-::::::: Seeing as this infobox template seems used for rational intervals only, I think your suggestion is much more efficient than mine. We'd have to clean up the old categories anyway, but at least the new category would be present already. [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 21:49, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 == Templates for wedgies, n-vals?.. ==
@@ Line 158: / Line 34: @@
 : Nice to have. So why not simply extend ''Template:Val'' and defaulting to one? [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 11:21, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 :: @FloraC: You know that [[Template:Val]] does nothing but formatting.
 :: We could do much more if we had scripting on board (see also [[User talk:Tyler Henthorn #Fwd: Extension request]]). We maybe should open an own section for this here ... --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 11:44, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
 ::: Still even though that doesn’t do more than syntax, I made a test: [[User:Arseniiv/Val']]. And while scripting is a good boon, what’s expected of it to make better for multival notation? Aside from correctness checks (a ''k''-val should have <math>\binom nk</math> entries), of course. --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 15:46, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
+: I believe [[wedgies and multivals]] are part of the [[varianced exterior algebra]] approach to RTT, which I believe isn't used anymore by the people who developed that theory. I think the current templates are sufficient, but I'd like to hear from others. [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 20:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 == Website for listening to intervals ==
@@ Line 171: / Line 46: @@
 : A browser-based solution (JS, WebAudio) would be really great. This included in Interval pages would be superior to most sound examples we uploaded. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 13:36, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 :: Very glad you like it! I also added my view on GUI at [[User:Arseniiv/Interval player idea]]. Now I can leave it for a while. --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 13:55, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 ::: I'm not sure if I didn't saw something like that. Maybe other xenharmonics have a better memory for that. Here is an interesting resource (provided you are not on IE 😉): [https://teropa.info/blog/2016/07/28/javascript-systems-music.html JavaScript Systems Music] --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 14:35, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 :::: Thanks, that would be useful! --[[User:Arseniiv|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv|talk]]) 14:41, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 ::::: Here is what led me to above page: [https://medium.com/@metalex9/making-generative-music-in-the-browser-bfb552a26b0b Making Generative Music in the Browser &#124; by Alex Bainter &#124; Medium] --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:08, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
+: I'm not sure whether we could generate audio using Lua modules, but at least for now every interval infobox has a link to xen-calc, which itself provides a link to Scale Workshop, where you can tweak the timbre ("waveform") from a preset list (18 choices at the moment). It's not as convenient as having it directly on the wiki, but it's a nice workaround, and you can probably just keep Scale Workshop open and enter the list of intervals in the scale data if you're going comparing multiple intervals anyway. [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 20:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
-== Shorten editing titles ==
-Say what you think about the change proposed ([[Xenharmonic Wiki:Things to do#Proposal: Shorten editing titles]])?
-* I'm for it: I have already tried it for three years in another wiki and can say that it proved to be useful there. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]])
-== New Category? ==
-Would it be possible to have a Kite Guitar category? There's already about a dozen pages about it.
-: Definitively. Good idea. I'll do it in a moment. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 10:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC) <br> <small>PS: Please, Kite, think of signing your contributions on discussion pages; it's easy, just type <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> (2 hyphens and 4 tildes), <br> the 4 tildes will be replaced automatically (on saving) by your linked user name and the time of saving. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 10:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)</small>
-:: Sorry, I keep forgetting to sign. Ill try signing before typing in my comment. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 22:01, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
-::: Great :) (I sometimes myself forget to sign). I hope the [[:category:Kite Guitar]] brings the expected benefits, hopefully I got all the pages you meant. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 22:06, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::: Looks good! By the way, how do I fix a double redirect? --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 07:39, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
-::::: Double redirects (''A'' &rarr; ''B'' &rarr; ''C'') are fixed by changing them into normal ones (A &rarr; C). Resolving double redirects is no big effort, I check from time to time if there are any to clean up. The [[Special:DoubleRedirects]] page helps with that. I'll leave it for a while in case you want to do it yourself. Please let me know if you like me to do it. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:38, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::::: I tried to fix it, did I do it right? --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 01:33, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
-:::::::  Yeah absolutely :) --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 12:22, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
-== Naming articles ==
-I'd like to write down our collaborative findings and experience about naming. What do you think? Is it reliable, or even correct? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 22:10, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
-: I'll be adding this:
-------
-We follow Wikipedia's style guides [[Wikipedia: WP:THE]], [[Wikipedia: WP:PLURAL]], and [[Wikipedia: WP:NCCAPS]]. In summary:
-; Case
-: Use English sentence case. This means that words inside the title are written in lower case, except for proper names. The very first character is automatically capitalized by the wiki software.
-; Plurals
-: Use singular nouns, unless it is a collection for different types of things.
-; Articles
-: Save articles at the initial of the title, unless it is an integral part of the title.
-Examples:
-* [[Val]] (correct)
-* <s>The val</s>
-* <s>Vals</s>
-* [[Normal lists]] (correct)
-* [[Online platforms]] (correct)
-------
-What do you dudes think? [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 15:22, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
-: I agree with everything on that topic so far. I also suggest that we follow parts of Wikipedia's style guides for categories, more specifically [[Wikipedia: WP:TOPICCAT]], [[Wikipedia: WP:SUBCAT]] and [[Wikipedia: WP:DIFFUSE]].
-: '''Plurals''': Use singular for topic categories and plural for set categories.
-: Examples:
-:* [[:Category:Scale]] (correct: topic category, to include pages like [[Periodic scale]] and [[Hexany]])
-:* [[:Category:Scales]] (correct: set category, to be diffused in subcategories — see below)
-:* <s>Category:Musician</s> (unless we have pages that would fit in a "Musician" topic category rather than pages about specific musicians)
-:* [[:Category:Musicians]] (correct)
-: '''Subcategorization''': If logical membership of one category implies logical membership of a second (an is-a relationship), then the first category should be made a subcategory (directly or indirectly) of the second.
-: Example:
-:* [[:Category:Small comma]] in [[:Category:Comma]] in [[:Category:Theory]] (correct)
-: '''Diffusion''': Do not include a page both in a category and its parent category unless the category is a non-diffusing category.
-: Examples:
-:* [[Meantone7]] in [[:Category:7-tone scales]], but not in [[:Category:Scales]] (correct)
-:* <s>5L 2s in Category:7-tone scales and in Category:Scales</s>
-:* [[5L 2s]] in [[:Category:7-tone scales]] and in [[:Category:MOS scales]] (correct, because the second category would be non-diffusing)
-: '''Metacategories''': schemes of subcategories can be organized with metacategories.
-: Example:
-:* [[:Category:Scales by size]] (correct, to contain categories such as [[:Category:7-tone scales]])
-: Aside the fact that there are multiple redundant categories for various topics (which is already noted with [[:Category:Todo:merge categories]]), it is often the case that pages about a topic and pages in a set are mixed together in one or many of those categories. [[:Category:Scale]] is a good example of that phenomenon.
-: I think there is a way to move and reorganize existing pages and categories efficiently using Cat-a-lot, but I'm not very familiar with it, and I don't know if I even have the user right to use it for that matter. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 22:38, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
-:: I agree with these categorization policies. Just a few notes. ''Category:Scales by number of tones'' is actually ''Category:Scales by size''. ''Category:Scale'' has been cleared. Most topics are under ''Category:Scale theory''. Meanwhile the move from ''Category:Musician'' to ''Category:Musicians'' hasn't started yet.
-:: I'm adding my part. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 23:12, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
-::: Thank you for the first note in particular. I replaced the example with ''Category:Scales by size'' in my previous message for clarity. I hadn't created the category yet at the time of writing that, so it seems I changed my mind afterwards.
-::: Also, concerning the use of Cat-a-lot, I know there is already a "manual bot" user, [[User:Keenan Pepper category edits]], which can use Cat-a-lot, but I would feel out of place to use that account, since it's associated with [[Keenan Pepper]]. Could I create a similar account for myself which I could then use for Cat-a-lot work? --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 00:34, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
-:::: Sure. Why not. Plz request it. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 11:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
-::::: There are [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Special:ListUsers?username=&group=bureaucrat&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50 only few users in this wiki who have the rights] to make this new account a bot (see <code>userrights</code> in [[Special:ListGroupRights]]). And I've currently not the time to wait. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:20, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
-:::::: I created the account ([[User:Fredg999 category edits]]) anyway. Hope you could spare some time to set it to a bot. Meanwhile I'll get in touch with Mike. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 13:04, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
-::::::: The account is in the bot group. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:39, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
 == 13-Limit, 17-Limit and 19-Limit Comma Pages ==
@@ Line 509: / Line 297: @@
 :: Alright. It's not my intention to restrict creative work in any way. [[User:IlL|Inthar]] ([[User talk:IlL|talk]]) 09:03, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
-== [[:Category: Pages with internal sound examples]] ==
-I made a new category called "Pages with internal sound examples". This category is similar to the "Listen" category, but it only lists pages with embedded audio files AKA internal sound examples. I believe this is a useful category to have for cases in which someone on the xen wiki wants to listen to a sound example without having to go to an external website. So far I have looked through the list of all pages to find and categorize pages that have internal sound examples, but for me alone to fully complete this process would take at least a week or so, provided I have enough spare time to edit the xen wiki on a regular basis. Because of this, I would like to know if anyone else on this wiki would be willing to help me add pages to the "Pages with internal sound examples" category. --[[User:Userminusone|Userminusone]] ([[User talk:Userminusone|talk]]) 03:25, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
-: I've already partially guessed this intention, so good to read this. This category definitely wouldn't hurt, let's see if it's of any use. I'm happy to join your efforts and will add sites to this category as I come across them (though probably not systematically). --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:43, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
-:: Thanks, Xenwolf. Now that you're on board, can I put this on "Xenharmonic Wiki:Things to do" so that other people can see it and contribute? --[[User:Userminusone|Userminusone]] ([[User talk:Userminusone|talk]]) 19:01, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
-== Odd harmonics table instead of prime harmonics for edos ==
-Suggestion: use [[User:Inthar/Template:Harmonics in edo]] (for odd harmonics) instead of [[Template:Primes in edo]] (for prime harmonics).
-: I saw that this has been done to a number of edo pages. The way I use this table is to find the error of a JI ratio in an edo. For 5/3, I subtract prime 3's error from prime 5's error. For 15/14, I add 3 and 5 and subtract 7. Because I'm used to doing all this, I don't need that redundant 9 column. For 9/8, I simply double 3's error. So this table which already is rather wide on the screen now has redundant columns for 9, 15, 21, 25 and 27. So personally I would prefer the old way, prime harmonics only. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 05:37, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
-:: One of the points of using odd tables is to ease inconsistent edos. With some edos with like a really off 3 but accurate 9, the odd table is likely to be helpful. With others the odd table is redundant. It depends on the edo. I propose a general guide: if error of prime 3 < 25%, show the prime table, otherwise odd table, or we may examine it case-by-case. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:53, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
-::: Re: inconsistent edos, that is indeed one reason why I made the odds table. My humble proposal: if there's no inconsistency in the odds table, use the prime table (showing primes up to 31). Otherwise use the odds table.
-::: Imo even when there's no inconsistency, I can still see the odds table being useful for showing at a glance how e.g. 31edo's 11/9 is really good. And, lack of inconsistency is in itself a piece of information about an edo. [[User:Inthar|Inthar]] ([[User talk:Inthar|talk]]) 09:09, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
-:::: I could see including 9 when prime 3 is > 25% off. 9 is a pretty small number, and the 9th harmonic is pretty audible on acoustic instruments. But why include all the other non-prime odd numbers? --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 22:11, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
-::::: [[18edo]] is an example of an edo that has a good 21/16 (-4.1c error) which is inconsistent with the best [[3/2]] and the best [[7/4]]. And it's nice to to be able to gauge the error for, say, 21/17 in an edo just by looking at the direct errors of the best 21 and the best 17. The table is meant to be a quick reference. Besides, aren't 15/8 and 21/16 both important JI ratios in the 5-limit and the 7-limit? [[User:Inthar|Inthar]] ([[User talk:Inthar|talk]]) 01:36, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

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