Talk:5120/5103: Difference between revisions

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:::: What about 41edo and 46edo? Those are both notable tunings that temper out the comma and have fifths that fall outside of your *argent* range. -- [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 00:35, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::: On my part I include 41edo within the argent range; and there's a case to be made that 46edo and 53edo, while notable, aren't truly representative of the intonation of tempering out 5120/5103. "Argent" strictly speaking refers not to a particular tuning range, anyhow, but to a specific tuning that sets the logarithmic ratio of the perfect fifth to the perfect fourth to be sqrt(2):1, for which one can define bands of tolerance around, but which very closely corresponds to the most accurate tunings that temper out this comma. Perhaps "argentisma" -> argentic, argentismic would be clearer, so as not to imply an RTT interpretation for the term "argent temperament" which is already in use. -- [[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 01:24, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::: On my part I include 41edo within the argent range; and there's a case to be made that 46edo and 53edo, while notable, aren't truly representative of the intonation of tempering out 5120/5103. "Argent" strictly speaking refers not to a particular tuning range, anyhow, but to a specific tuning that sets the logarithmic ratio of the perfect fifth to the perfect fourth to be sqrt(2):1, for which one can define bands of tolerance around, but which very closely corresponds to the most accurate tunings that temper out this comma. Perhaps "argentisma" -> argentic, argentismic would be clearer, so as not to imply an RTT interpretation for the term "argent temperament" which is already in use.

::::: Compare this to the intonation of counterpyth, which quite distinctly favors tunings of 3/2 far flatter than the optimum of tempering out 5120/5103 by itself: just 19/15 gives us roughly 1/16-comma hemifamity as opposed to just 15/14, 7/5, or 21/20 which provide 1/5, 1/6, and 1/7-comma tunings. For this reason, I oppose seeing counterpyth as a canonical extension to the 7-limit rank-3 {5120/5103} temperament. -- [[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 01:24, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::::: I did think about making 24\41 the boundary instead, as rank-3 microtemps tend to have flatter fifths than that even if 152fg or 111 support them. My flat end of argent is surely not flatter than 24\41 and not sharper than 41\70. Between those are kwai fifths... that I may consider too damaged indeed on second thought, and so belonging to the "slightly exo" range codenamed argent. [[User:VIxen|VIxen]] ([[User talk:VIxen|talk]]) 20:23, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:::: I prefer "Saruyo". It's the only name out of all these suggestions that directly indicates 5120/5103. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 09:19, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: I have a dumb idea. Why not call it the *pell comma* after the Pell sequence of numbers, whose convergent ratio gives the approximate ratio between an octave and a perfect fourth for the optimal tuning of the temperament? [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 20:59, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

:: I think referencing the Pell sequence makes way more sense for a member of the family of commas going 50/49, 289/288, 1682/1681, 9801/9800, etc. The only relation of Pell numbers to 5120/5103 is the edo sequence, which seems rather secondary, as much as I'm a promoter of 239edo. --[[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 22:42, 18 September 2025 (UTC)

: I propose the name "interkleisma", since 5120/5103 is the difference between 64/63 and 81/80 (the main formal commas for primes 5 and 7), and is around a kleisma in size.--[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 03:02, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

:: It's a half kleisma in 270edo (and 311edo if you consider other kleismata such as 1029/1024) tho. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:20, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

::: Your essay on the 13-limit JI space considers 5120/5103~352/351~847/845, 325/324~385/384, 364/363~441/440, 540/539~729/728, and 351/350 as kleismas. Even if it is a half-kleisma in 270edo, the comma is close enough to the rough interval region, and also no single edo should decide the name.--[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 16:58, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

:::: Oh wow, my bad. I'll change them to hemikleismata. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 21:39, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

Should we do a poll here? The name was basically pre-maturely changed according to a poll on XA Discord. Besides, we need to decide what to do with the temp's name. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 12:51, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

: If enough people want to, then I guess. I like the current name of this comma, and I was thinking of the associated full 7-limit temperament being "argentic" and the 2.3.7/5 subgroup one being "argic". [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 06:12, 27 January 2026 (UTC)

: Why not [[64/63|S8]]/[[81/80|S9]]? Are there many properties of this comma that aren't explained by it being ((8/7)/(9/8)) / ((9/8)/(10/9)) = (64/63) / (81/80) and hence ([[10/7]])/([[9/8]])<sup>3</sup>? --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 12:27, 16 February 2026 (UTC)

:: Because "ess eight over ess nine" is too many syllables. [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 05:34, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

: I'm fine calling it saruyoma, y'all sort this out. --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 10:04, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

=== Petition to officialize ''aberschisma'', and change ''hemifamity'' to ''aberschismic'' ===

At this point, ''aberschisma'' and ''aberschismic'' seem like the most widely liked and used names in xenharmonic communities. Thereby I request ''aberschisma'' be set as the permanent, main name for 5120/5103, and ''hemifamity'' be officially changed to ''aberschismic''.

Please put your "yes" or "no" and signature below. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 05:56, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

# '''Yes'''. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 05:56, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

# Yes, sure, why not. --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 07:48, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

# '''Yes''', I'm only weakly towards that name, but it feels alright, if the community wants it. --[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 15:40, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

# '''Yes.''' [[User:Inthar|Inthar]] ([[User talk:Inthar|talk]]) 20:16, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

# '''Yes'''. "Argentic" should still refer to the 2.3.7/5 subgroup temperament, however, per the change I made. --[[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 20:18, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

# '''Yes''', I find it a lot more usefully descriptive. Hemififths and Amity are far from the main temperaments I associate with the comma, and Aberschismic comparatively describes quite well how I tend to use it (to equate 81/80~64/63 as a singular aberrisma) [[User:Unque|Unque]] ([[User talk:Unque|talk]]) 20:22, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

# '''Yes'''. [[User:DotuXil|dotuXil]] <span style="color:#f50c7d">(i like microtones)</span> 21:41, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

# '''Yes''', I'm ok with it in part since I was involved in coining the name [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 06:03, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

# '''Yes, if it means eliminating all other names''', cuz honestly I have no idea why not just call it "[[64/63|S8]]/[[81/80|S9]]" and be done with it. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 19:17, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

: I was under the impression that "argent" won out in the community? – [[User:Sintel|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel|talk]]) 12:30, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

:: In my opinion it's a bit too confusing with the logarithmic argent tuning, even though it is closely related. --[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 15:40, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

::: Seconded. --[[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 20:18, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

:::: Thirded. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 19:18, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

----

Closing for near-universal consensus. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 10:12, 6 June 2026 (UTC)

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 :::: What about 41edo and 46edo? Those are both notable tunings that temper out the comma and have fifths that fall outside of your *argent* range. -- [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 00:35, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
-::::: On my part I include 41edo within the argent range; and there's a case to be made that 46edo and 53edo, while notable, aren't truly representative of the intonation of tempering out 5120/5103. "Argent" strictly speaking refers not to a particular tuning range, anyhow, but to a specific tuning that sets the logarithmic ratio of the perfect fifth to the perfect fourth to be sqrt(2):1, for which one can define bands of tolerance around, but which very closely corresponds to the most accurate tunings that temper out this comma. Perhaps "argentisma" -> argentic, argentismic would be clearer, so as not to imply an RTT interpretation for the term "argent temperament" which is already in use. -- [[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 01:24, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
+::::: On my part I include 41edo within the argent range; and there's a case to be made that 46edo and 53edo, while notable, aren't truly representative of the intonation of tempering out 5120/5103. "Argent" strictly speaking refers not to a particular tuning range, anyhow, but to a specific tuning that sets the logarithmic ratio of the perfect fifth to the perfect fourth to be sqrt(2):1, for which one can define bands of tolerance around, but which very closely corresponds to the most accurate tunings that temper out this comma. Perhaps "argentisma" -> argentic, argentismic would be clearer, so as not to imply an RTT interpretation for the term "argent temperament" which is already in use.
+::::: Compare this to the intonation of counterpyth, which quite distinctly favors tunings of 3/2 far flatter than the optimum of tempering out 5120/5103 by itself: just 19/15 gives us roughly 1/16-comma hemifamity as opposed to just 15/14, 7/5, or 21/20 which provide 1/5, 1/6, and 1/7-comma tunings. For this reason, I oppose seeing counterpyth as a canonical extension to the 7-limit rank-3 {5120/5103} temperament. -- [[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 01:24, 12 June 2025 (UTC)
+::::: I did think about making 24\41 the boundary instead, as rank-3 microtemps tend to have flatter fifths than that even if 152fg or 111 support them. My flat end of argent is surely not flatter than 24\41 and not sharper than 41\70. Between those are kwai fifths... that I may consider too damaged indeed on second thought, and so belonging to the "slightly exo" range codenamed argent. [[User:VIxen|VIxen]] ([[User talk:VIxen|talk]]) 20:23, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
 :::: I prefer "Saruyo". It's the only name out of all these suggestions that directly indicates 5120/5103. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 09:19, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
+: I have a dumb idea. Why not call it the *pell comma* after the Pell sequence of numbers, whose convergent ratio gives the approximate ratio between an octave and a perfect fourth for the optimal tuning of the temperament? [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 20:59, 18 September 2025 (UTC)
+:: I think referencing the Pell sequence makes way more sense for a member of the family of commas going 50/49, 289/288, 1682/1681, 9801/9800, etc. The only relation of Pell numbers to 5120/5103 is the edo sequence, which seems rather secondary, as much as I'm a promoter of 239edo. --[[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 22:42, 18 September 2025 (UTC)
+: I propose the name "interkleisma", since 5120/5103 is the difference between 64/63 and 81/80 (the main formal commas for primes 5 and 7), and is around a kleisma in size.--[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 03:02, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
+:: It's a half kleisma in 270edo (and 311edo if you consider other kleismata such as 1029/1024) tho. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:20, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
+::: Your essay on the 13-limit JI space considers 5120/5103~352/351~847/845, 325/324~385/384, 364/363~441/440, 540/539~729/728, and 351/350 as kleismas. Even if it is a half-kleisma in 270edo, the comma is close enough to the rough interval region, and also no single edo should decide the name.--[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 16:58, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
+:::: Oh wow, my bad. I'll change them to hemikleismata. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 21:39, 13 February 2026 (UTC)
+Should we do a poll here? The name was basically pre-maturely changed according to a poll on XA Discord. Besides, we need to decide what to do with the temp's name. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 12:51, 22 January 2026 (UTC)
+: If enough people want to, then I guess. I like the current name of this comma, and I was thinking of the associated full 7-limit temperament being "argentic" and the 2.3.7/5 subgroup one being "argic". [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 06:12, 27 January 2026 (UTC)
+: Why not [[64/63|S8]]/[[81/80|S9]]? Are there many properties of this comma that aren't explained by it being ((8/7)/(9/8)) / ((9/8)/(10/9)) = (64/63) / (81/80) and hence ([[10/7]])/([[9/8]])<sup>3</sup>? --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 12:27, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
+:: Because "ess eight over ess nine" is too many syllables. [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 05:34, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
+: I'm fine calling it saruyoma, y'all sort this out. --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 10:04, 6 May 2026 (UTC)
+=== Petition to officialize ''aberschisma'', and change ''hemifamity'' to ''aberschismic'' ===
+At this point, ''aberschisma'' and ''aberschismic'' seem like the most widely liked and used names in xenharmonic communities. Thereby I request ''aberschisma'' be set as the permanent, main name for 5120/5103, and ''hemifamity'' be officially changed to ''aberschismic''.
+Please put your "yes" or "no" and signature below. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 05:56, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+# '''Yes'''. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 05:56, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+# Yes, sure, why not. --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 07:48, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+# '''Yes''', I'm only weakly towards that name, but it feels alright, if the community wants it. --[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 15:40, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+# '''Yes.''' [[User:Inthar|Inthar]] ([[User talk:Inthar|talk]]) 20:16, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+# '''Yes'''. "Argentic" should still refer to the 2.3.7/5 subgroup temperament, however, per the change I made. --[[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 20:18, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+# '''Yes''', I find it a lot more usefully descriptive.  Hemififths and Amity are far from the main temperaments I associate with the comma, and Aberschismic comparatively describes quite well how I tend to use it (to equate 81/80~64/63 as a singular aberrisma) [[User:Unque|Unque]] ([[User talk:Unque|talk]]) 20:22, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+# '''Yes'''. [[User:DotuXil|dotuXil]] <span style="color:#f50c7d">(i like microtones)</span> 21:41, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+# '''Yes''', I'm ok with it in part since I was involved in coining the name [[User:Tristanbay|Tristanbay]] ([[User talk:Tristanbay|talk]]) 06:03, 3 June 2026 (UTC)
+# '''Yes, if it means eliminating all other names''', cuz honestly I have no idea why not just call it "[[64/63|S8]]/[[81/80|S9]]" and be done with it. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 19:17, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
+: I was under the impression that "argent" won out in the community? – [[User:Sintel|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel|talk]]) 12:30, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+:: In my opinion it's a bit too confusing with the logarithmic argent tuning, even though it is closely related. --[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 15:40, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+::: Seconded. --[[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 20:18, 1 June 2026 (UTC)
+:::: Thirded. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 19:18, 4 June 2026 (UTC)
+----
+Closing for near-universal consensus. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 10:12, 6 June 2026 (UTC)