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| <h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
| | People often say xenharmonic intervals like 16/11 are "sour" and mathematically similar intervals (e.g. octave inverses like |
| This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
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| : This revision was by author [[User:mikesheiman|mikesheiman]] and made on <tt>2014-02-22 11:17:31 UTC</tt>.<br>
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| : The original revision id was <tt>491212770</tt>.<br>
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| : The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
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| The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
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| <h4>Original Wikitext content:</h4>
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| <div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html">People often say xenharmonic intervals like 16/11 are "sour" and mathematically similar intervals (e.g. octave inverses like
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| 1/(16/11) or 11/8) are "sweet". Doesn't that seem a bit counter intuitive? | | 1/(16/11) or 11/8) are "sweet". Doesn't that seem a bit counter intuitive? |
| We've been told via standard music theory to accept everything, **even xenharmonic/microtonal intervals, be** **pigeon-holed into some sort of diatonic category**. | | |
| | We've been told via standard music theory to accept everything, '''even xenharmonic/microtonal intervals, be''' '''pigeon-holed into some sort of diatonic category'''. |
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| In 12EDO C is the tonic/"first". | | In 12EDO C is the tonic/"first". |
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| C# (apx. 17/16) is a minor second | | C# (apx. 17/16) is a minor second |
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| D (apx. 9/8) is a major second | | D (apx. 9/8) is a major second |
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| D# (apx. 6/5) is a minor third | | D# (apx. 6/5) is a minor third |
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| E (apx. 5/4) is a major third | | E (apx. 5/4) is a major third |
| **F (apx 4/3) is a perfect fourth** (Why not a major or minor? Inconsistency...)
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| **F# (apx. 7/5) is on the borderline between a fourth and fifth**
| | '''F (apx 4/3) is a perfect fourth''' (Why not a major or minor? Inconsistency...) |
| **G (apx. 3/2) is a perfect fifth** (Again, no major or minor. Inconsistency...)
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| | '''F# (apx. 7/5) is on the borderline between a fourth and fifth''' |
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| | '''G (apx. 3/2) is a perfect fifth''' (Again, no major or minor. Inconsistency...) |
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| G# (apx. 8/5)is a minor sixth | | G# (apx. 8/5)is a minor sixth |
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| A (apx. 5/3) is a major sixth | | A (apx. 5/3) is a major sixth |
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| A# (apx. 9/5) is a minor seventh | | A# (apx. 9/5) is a minor seventh |
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| B (apx 15/8) is a major seventh | | B (apx 15/8) is a major seventh |
| **Notice how...even in 12EDO, interval categories seem a bit shaky and inconsistent.**
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| | '''Notice how...even in 12EDO, interval categories seem a bit shaky and inconsistent.''' |
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| So how, then, to you categorize something like an 11/8 or 16/11 between a fourth and a fifth? Or an interval like 14/9, between a fifth and a sixth? Furthermore, how do explain when, for example, a 16/11 feels "sour" while an 11/8 slightly below it feels upbeat/sweet? | | So how, then, to you categorize something like an 11/8 or 16/11 between a fourth and a fifth? Or an interval like 14/9, between a fifth and a sixth? Furthermore, how do explain when, for example, a 16/11 feels "sour" while an 11/8 slightly below it feels upbeat/sweet? |
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| Usually we simply add additional names as necessary and further complicate the system. 16/11? That's sour because it's a **diminished** fifth. Around 14/9? That's upbeat because it's an **augmented** fifth. Why not just stick with major (**more upbeat**) and minor (**more downbeat**) and neutral (**in-between upbeat and downbeat and a bit sour**)...equally distributed among 4ths, 5ths, 6ths...? | | Usually we simply add additional names as necessary and further complicate the system. 16/11? That's sour because it's a '''diminished''' fifth. Around 14/9? That's upbeat because it's an '''augmented''' fifth. Why not just stick with major ('''more upbeat''') and minor ('''more downbeat''') and neutral ('''in-between upbeat and downbeat and a bit sour''')...equally distributed among 4ths, 5ths, 6ths...? |
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| | Here's a proposal for a <u>'''major/minor/neutral-only system'''</u> |
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| Here's a proposal for a __**major/minor/neutral-only system**__
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| C is the tonic/"first". | | C is the tonic/"first". |
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| (15/14 and less) is a minor second | | (15/14 and less) is a minor second |
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| (13/12 to 11/10) is a neutral second | | (13/12 to 11/10) is a neutral second |
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| (10/9 to 9/8) is a major second | | (10/9 to 9/8) is a major second |
| (8/7) is a minor **second-half** | | |
| **(15/13) is a** neutral **second-half**
| | (8/7) is a minor '''second-half''' |
| (7/6) is a major **second-half** | | |
| | '''(15/13) is a''' neutral '''second-half''' |
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| | (7/6) is a major '''second-half''' |
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| (19/16 to 6/5) is a minor third | | (19/16 to 6/5) is a minor third |
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| (11/9) is a neutral third | | (11/9) is a neutral third |
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| (5/4-9/7) is a major third | | (5/4-9/7) is a major third |
| (4/3) is a **minor fourth** **(not a perfect fourth)** | | |
| | (4/3) is a '''minor fourth''' '''(not a perfect fourth)''' |
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| (15/11) is a neutral fourth | | (15/11) is a neutral fourth |
| (11/8) is a **major fourth (a more upbeat fourth)** | | |
| (7/5) is a **minor fourth-half (not the usual tritone)** | | (11/8) is a '''major fourth (a more upbeat fourth)''' |
| **(10/7)** is a **neutral fourth-half (not the usual tritone)**
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| (13/9) is a **major fourth-half (a "more upbeat tritone")** | | (7/5) is a '''minor fourth-half (not the usual tritone)''' |
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| | '''(10/7)''' is a '''neutral fourth-half (not the usual tritone)''' |
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| | (13/9) is a '''major fourth-half (a "more upbeat tritone")''' |
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| (16/11) is a minor fifth | | (16/11) is a minor fifth |
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| (22/15) is a neutral fifth | | (22/15) is a neutral fifth |
| (3/2) is a **major fifth (not a perfect fifth)** | | |
| (17/11) is a **minor fifth-half** | | (3/2) is a '''major fifth (not a perfect fifth)''' |
| **---------------------**
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| **(14/9-11/7)** is a **major fifth-half**
| | (17/11) is a '''minor fifth-half''' |
| **(8/5)** is a minor sixth
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| | '''---------------------''' |
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| | '''(14/9-11/7)''' is a '''major fifth-half''' |
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| | '''(8/5)''' is a minor sixth |
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| (13/8-18/11) is a neutral sixth | | (13/8-18/11) is a neutral sixth |
| **(5/3)** is a major sixth
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| (12/7) is a **minor sixth-half** | | '''(5/3)''' is a major sixth |
| **(26/15)** is a **neutral sixth-half**
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| (7/4) is a **major sixth-half** | | (12/7) is a '''minor sixth-half''' |
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| | '''(26/15)''' is a '''neutral sixth-half''' |
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| | (7/4) is a '''major sixth-half''' |
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| (16/9-9/5) is a minor seventh | | (16/9-9/5) is a minor seventh |
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| (11/6) is a neutral seventh | | (11/6) is a neutral seventh |
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| (15/8) is a major seventh | | (15/8) is a major seventh |
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| **Note there is only one gap where there isn't an equal minor/neutral/major sub-type categorization for every interval number/type!** Only the fifth-half isn't perfectly even with two parts instead of 3.
| | '''Note there is only one gap where there isn't an equal minor/neutral/major sub-type categorization for every interval number/type!''' Only the fifth-half isn't perfectly even with two parts instead of 3. |
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| At a quick glance...the point is **with the latter system, you can hopefully quickly/easily tell which intervals to use to get upbeat (major), downbeat and a tad tense (minor), somewhat tense and mixed-mooded (neutral), or relatively sour (fourth-half) intervals.**</pre></div> | | At a quick glance...the point is '''with the latter system, you can hopefully quickly/easily tell which intervals to use to get upbeat (major), downbeat and a tad tense (minor), somewhat tense and mixed-mooded (neutral), or relatively sour (fourth-half) intervals.''' |
| <h4>Original HTML content:</h4>
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| <div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;width:200%;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html"><html><head><title>Mike Sheiman's Alternative Interval Categorizations</title></head><body>People often say xenharmonic intervals like 16/11 are &quot;sour&quot; and mathematically similar intervals (e.g. octave inverses like<br />
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| 1/(16/11) or 11/8) are &quot;sweet&quot;. Doesn't that seem a bit counter intuitive?<br />
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| We've been told via standard music theory to accept everything, <strong>even xenharmonic/microtonal intervals, be</strong> <strong>pigeon-holed into some sort of diatonic category</strong>.<br />
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| <br />
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| In 12EDO C is the tonic/&quot;first&quot;.<br />
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| C# (apx. 17/16) is a minor second<br />
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| D (apx. 9/8) is a major second<br />
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| D# (apx. 6/5) is a minor third<br />
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| E (apx. 5/4) is a major third<br />
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| <strong>F (apx 4/3) is a perfect fourth</strong> (Why not a major or minor? Inconsistency...)<br />
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| <strong>F# (apx. 7/5) is on the borderline between a fourth and fifth</strong><br />
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| <strong>G (apx. 3/2) is a perfect fifth</strong> (Again, no major or minor. Inconsistency...)<br />
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| G# (apx. 8/5)is a minor sixth<br />
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| A (apx. 5/3) is a major sixth<br />
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| A# (apx. 9/5) is a minor seventh<br />
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| B (apx 15/8) is a major seventh<br />
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| <strong>Notice how...even in 12EDO, interval categories seem a bit shaky and inconsistent.</strong><br />
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| So how, then, to you categorize something like an 11/8 or 16/11 between a fourth and a fifth? Or an interval like 14/9, between a fifth and a sixth? Furthermore, how do explain when, for example, a 16/11 feels &quot;sour&quot; while an 11/8 slightly below it feels upbeat/sweet?<br />
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| <br />
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| Usually we simply add additional names as necessary and further complicate the system. 16/11? That's sour because it's a <strong>diminished</strong> fifth. Around 14/9? That's upbeat because it's an <strong>augmented</strong> fifth. Why not just stick with major (<strong>more upbeat</strong>) and minor (<strong>more downbeat</strong>) and neutral (<strong>in-between upbeat and downbeat and a bit sour</strong>)...equally distributed among 4ths, 5ths, 6ths...?<br />
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| <br />
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| Here's a proposal for a <u><strong>major/minor/neutral-only system</strong></u><br />
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| C is the tonic/&quot;first&quot;.<br />
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| (15/14 and less) is a minor second<br />
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| (13/12 to 11/10) is a neutral second<br />
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| (10/9 to 9/8) is a major second<br />
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| (8/7) is a minor <strong>second-half</strong><br />
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| <strong>(15/13) is a</strong> neutral <strong>second-half</strong><br />
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| (7/6) is a major <strong>second-half</strong><br />
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| (19/16 to 6/5) is a minor third<br />
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| (11/9) is a neutral third<br />
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| (5/4-9/7) is a major third<br />
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| (4/3) is a <strong>minor fourth</strong> <strong>(not a perfect fourth)</strong><br />
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| (15/11) is a neutral fourth<br />
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| (11/8) is a <strong>major fourth (a more upbeat fourth)</strong><br />
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| (7/5) is a <strong>minor fourth-half (not the usual tritone)</strong><br />
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| <strong>(10/7)</strong> is a <strong>neutral fourth-half (not the usual tritone)</strong><br />
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| (13/9) is a <strong>major fourth-half (a &quot;more upbeat tritone&quot;)</strong><br />
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| (16/11) is a minor fifth<br />
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| (22/15) is a neutral fifth<br />
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| (3/2) is a <strong>major fifth (not a perfect fifth)</strong><br />
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| (17/11) is a <strong>minor fifth-half</strong><br />
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| <strong>---------------------</strong><br />
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| <strong>(14/9-11/7)</strong> is a <strong>major fifth-half</strong><br />
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| <strong>(8/5)</strong> is a minor sixth<br />
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| (13/8-18/11) is a neutral sixth<br />
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| <strong>(5/3)</strong> is a major sixth<br />
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| (12/7) is a <strong>minor sixth-half</strong><br />
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| <strong>(26/15)</strong> is a <strong>neutral sixth-half</strong><br />
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| (7/4) is a <strong>major sixth-half</strong><br />
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| (16/9-9/5) is a minor seventh<br />
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| (11/6) is a neutral seventh<br />
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| (15/8) is a major seventh<br />
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| <br />
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| <strong>Note there is only one gap where there isn't an equal minor/neutral/major sub-type categorization for every interval number/type!</strong> Only the fifth-half isn't perfectly even with two parts instead of 3.<br />
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| <br />
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| At a quick glance...the point is <strong>with the latter system, you can hopefully quickly/easily tell which intervals to use to get upbeat (major), downbeat and a tad tense (minor), somewhat tense and mixed-mooded (neutral), or relatively sour (fourth-half) intervals.</strong></body></html></pre></div>
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