User:Xenji/Redundancy: Difference between revisions

Wikispaces>Andrew_Heathwaite
**Imported revision 102233089 - Original comment: **
 
Wikispaces>Andrew_Heathwaite
**Imported revision 102234005 - Original comment: **
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<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
: This revision was by author [[User:Andrew_Heathwaite|Andrew_Heathwaite]] and made on <tt>2009-11-12 14:20:00 UTC</tt>.<br>
: This revision was by author [[User:Andrew_Heathwaite|Andrew_Heathwaite]] and made on <tt>2009-11-12 14:22:25 UTC</tt>.<br>
: The original revision id was <tt>102233089</tt>.<br>
: The original revision id was <tt>102234005</tt>.<br>
: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
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Gregory Bateson has this to say about redundancy in his article "Style, Grace, and Information in Primitive Art":
Gregory Bateson has this to say about redundancy in his article "Style, Grace, and Information in Primitive Art":


Any aggregate of events or objects (e.g., a sequence of phonemes, a painting, or a frog, or a culture) shall be said to contain "redundancy" or "pattern" if the aggregate can be divided in any way by a "slash mark," such that an observer perceiving only what is on one side of the slash mark can __guess__, with better than random success, what is on the other side of the slash mark. We may say that what is on one side of the slash contains __information__ or has __meaning__ about what is on the other side. Or, in engineer's language, the aggregate contains "redundancy."
//Any aggregate of events or objects (e.g., a sequence of phonemes, a painting, or a frog, or a culture) shall be said to contain "redundancy" or "pattern" if the aggregate can be divided in any way by a "slash mark," such that an observer perceiving only what is on one side of the slash mark can// guess//, with better than random success, what is on the other side of the slash mark. We may say that what is on one side of the slash contains// information //or has// meaning //about what is on the other side. Or, in engineer's language, the aggregate contains "redundancy."//


I ([[user:Andrew_Heathwaite]]) assert: systems (including "works of art", "compositions", etc) contain layers of differing redundancy, &amp; an instance of "no redundancy" or "little redundancy" has significance (for an observer) in contrast to instances of "redundancy."
I ([[user:Andrew_Heathwaite]]) assert: systems (including "works of art", "compositions", etc) contain layers of differing redundancy, &amp; an instance of "no redundancy" or "little redundancy" has significance (for an observer) in contrast to instances of "redundancy."


If I look a tuning as a system, I might consider the tuning's "redundancy."
If I look a tuning as a system, I might consider the tuning's "redundancy."
How does this tuning system exhibit pattern?
How does this tuning system exhibit //pattern//?
Why should I care?
Why should I care?
* I care about how a tuning system offers redundancy so that I may choose a different network of redundancies than th one(s) I'm familiar with.
* I care about how a tuning system offers redundancy so that I may choose a different network of redundancies than th one(s) I'm familiar with.
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* sustained pitch
* sustained pitch
** redundancy in time
** redundancy in time
* a [[scales|scale]]
* a [[ScaleIndex|scale]]  
** redundancy in time: "I've heard these pitches before"
** redundancy in time: "I've heard these pitches before"
** less redundant: a scale which changes (for instance, ascending different from descending)
** less redundant: a scale which changes (for instance, ascending different from descending)
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Gregory Bateson has this to say about redundancy in his article &amp;quot;Style, Grace, and Information in Primitive Art&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
Gregory Bateson has this to say about redundancy in his article &amp;quot;Style, Grace, and Information in Primitive Art&amp;quot;:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any aggregate of events or objects (e.g., a sequence of phonemes, a painting, or a frog, or a culture) shall be said to contain &amp;quot;redundancy&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;pattern&amp;quot; if the aggregate can be divided in any way by a &amp;quot;slash mark,&amp;quot; such that an observer perceiving only what is on one side of the slash mark can &lt;u&gt;guess&lt;/u&gt;, with better than random success, what is on the other side of the slash mark. We may say that what is on one side of the slash contains &lt;u&gt;information&lt;/u&gt; or has &lt;u&gt;meaning&lt;/u&gt; about what is on the other side. Or, in engineer's language, the aggregate contains &amp;quot;redundancy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;em&gt;Any aggregate of events or objects (e.g., a sequence of phonemes, a painting, or a frog, or a culture) shall be said to contain &amp;quot;redundancy&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;pattern&amp;quot; if the aggregate can be divided in any way by a &amp;quot;slash mark,&amp;quot; such that an observer perceiving only what is on one side of the slash mark can&lt;/em&gt; guess&lt;em&gt;, with better than random success, what is on the other side of the slash mark. We may say that what is on one side of the slash contains&lt;/em&gt; information &lt;em&gt;or has&lt;/em&gt; meaning &lt;em&gt;about what is on the other side. Or, in engineer's language, the aggregate contains &amp;quot;redundancy.&amp;quot;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I (&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextUserlinkRule:00:[[user:Andrew_Heathwaite]] --&gt;&lt;span class="membersnap"&gt;- &lt;a class="userLink" href="http://www.wikispaces.com/user/view/Andrew_Heathwaite" style="outline: none;"&gt;&lt;img src="http://www.wikispaces.com/user/pic/Andrew_Heathwaite-lg.jpg" width="16" height="16" alt="Andrew_Heathwaite" class="userPicture" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a class="userLink" href="http://www.wikispaces.com/user/view/Andrew_Heathwaite" style="outline: none;"&gt;Andrew_Heathwaite&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextUserlinkRule:00 --&gt;) assert: systems (including &amp;quot;works of art&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;compositions&amp;quot;, etc) contain layers of differing redundancy, &amp;amp; an instance of &amp;quot;no redundancy&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;little redundancy&amp;quot; has significance (for an observer) in contrast to instances of &amp;quot;redundancy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I (&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextUserlinkRule:00:[[user:Andrew_Heathwaite]] --&gt;&lt;span class="membersnap"&gt;- &lt;a class="userLink" href="http://www.wikispaces.com/user/view/Andrew_Heathwaite" style="outline: none;"&gt;&lt;img src="http://www.wikispaces.com/user/pic/Andrew_Heathwaite-lg.jpg" width="16" height="16" alt="Andrew_Heathwaite" class="userPicture" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a class="userLink" href="http://www.wikispaces.com/user/view/Andrew_Heathwaite" style="outline: none;"&gt;Andrew_Heathwaite&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextUserlinkRule:00 --&gt;) assert: systems (including &amp;quot;works of art&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;compositions&amp;quot;, etc) contain layers of differing redundancy, &amp;amp; an instance of &amp;quot;no redundancy&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;little redundancy&amp;quot; has significance (for an observer) in contrast to instances of &amp;quot;redundancy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If I look a tuning as a system, I might consider the tuning's &amp;quot;redundancy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
If I look a tuning as a system, I might consider the tuning's &amp;quot;redundancy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
How does this tuning system exhibit pattern?&lt;br /&gt;
How does this tuning system exhibit &lt;em&gt;pattern&lt;/em&gt;?&lt;br /&gt;
Why should I care?&lt;br /&gt;
Why should I care?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;I care about how a tuning system offers redundancy so that I may choose a different network of redundancies than th one(s) I'm familiar with.&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;A fish attempting to &amp;quot;see&amp;quot; the water she lives in.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;I care about how a tuning system offers redundancy so that I may choose a different network of redundancies than th one(s) I'm familiar with.&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;A fish attempting to &amp;quot;see&amp;quot; the water she lives in.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Here is a far from complete list of aspects of tunings systems that might indicate redundancy of some kind. Please add to it!&lt;br /&gt;
Here is a far from complete list of aspects of tunings systems that might indicate redundancy of some kind. Please add to it!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;definite pitches&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;instead of, or in addition to noise&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;sustained pitch&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;redundancy in time&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;a &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/scales"&gt;scale&lt;/a&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;redundancy in time: &amp;quot;I've heard these pitches before&amp;quot;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;less redundant: a scale which changes (for instance, ascending different from descending)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/consonance"&gt;consonance&lt;/a&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;more than one pitch sounding together &amp;amp; their distinctness blurring&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/octave%20equivalence"&gt;octave equivalence&lt;/a&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;B-flat considered equivalent to B-flat...&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/octave-repeating"&gt;octave-repeating&lt;/a&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;the &amp;quot;same&amp;quot; pitches are available in each octave&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/equal"&gt;equal&lt;/a&gt; divisions of some interval&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;also: &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/quasi-equal"&gt;quasi-equal&lt;/a&gt; divisions: less redundant&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;tuning lattices&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/harmonic%20limit"&gt;harmonic limit&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/MOSScales"&gt;moment of symmetry&lt;/a&gt; technique (making a chain of one interval)&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;produces scales with two step sizes &amp;amp; a finite set of intervals&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;less redundant variations: &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/MOS%20Cradle"&gt;MOS Cradle&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/Second%20Order%20MOS"&gt;Second Order MOS&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;matching tuning to timbre&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;eg. rational intonation, selects pitches which are copied in the &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/OverToneSeries"&gt;overtone series&lt;/a&gt; of other intervals&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;eg. Indonesian gamelan tuning - the scale is made to match the inharmonic pitches of the metals used in building the instruments&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;matching timbre to tuning&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;the reverse of the above: making a timbre (usually with a computer) to &amp;quot;match&amp;quot; a stipulated tuning&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</pre></div>
&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;definite pitches&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;instead of, or in addition to noise&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;sustained pitch&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;redundancy in time&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;a &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/ScaleIndex"&gt;scale&lt;/a&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;redundancy in time: &amp;quot;I've heard these pitches before&amp;quot;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;less redundant: a scale which changes (for instance, ascending different from descending)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/consonance"&gt;consonance&lt;/a&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;more than one pitch sounding together &amp;amp; their distinctness blurring&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/octave%20equivalence"&gt;octave equivalence&lt;/a&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;B-flat considered equivalent to B-flat...&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/octave-repeating"&gt;octave-repeating&lt;/a&gt;&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;the &amp;quot;same&amp;quot; pitches are available in each octave&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/equal"&gt;equal&lt;/a&gt; divisions of some interval&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;also: &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/quasi-equal"&gt;quasi-equal&lt;/a&gt; divisions: less redundant&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;tuning lattices&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/harmonic%20limit"&gt;harmonic limit&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/MOSScales"&gt;moment of symmetry&lt;/a&gt; technique (making a chain of one interval)&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;produces scales with two step sizes &amp;amp; a finite set of intervals&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;less redundant variations: &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/MOS%20Cradle"&gt;MOS Cradle&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/Second%20Order%20MOS"&gt;Second Order MOS&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;matching tuning to timbre&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;eg. rational intonation, selects pitches which are copied in the &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/OverToneSeries"&gt;overtone series&lt;/a&gt; of other intervals&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;eg. Indonesian gamelan tuning - the scale is made to match the inharmonic pitches of the metals used in building the instruments&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;matching timbre to tuning&lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;the reverse of the above: making a timbre (usually with a computer) to &amp;quot;match&amp;quot; a stipulated tuning&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</pre></div>