Talk:Meantone: Difference between revisions

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: The most important corollary of accepting meantone as a 7-limit temp is just that: introducing a number of essentially tempered chords, and to realize most if not all chords in common practice were 9-odd-limit concords, either essentially tempered or essentially just. While many consider 9-odd-limit as concordance and thus will rule out discordance in the analysis of common practice music, septimal intervals and the related essentially tempered chords are still more complex, and contextually later, than say 5-limit triads, so that treating them as discordance is still possible. Since they are basically free to be laid on or taken out, the distinction of classical and septimal meantone seems practically pointless. I can only see the need of it in very technical contexts such as tuning optimization. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:32, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

:: It may be true that “you get septimal intervals for free” in the RTT mapping, but in many common tunings of meantone the septimal intervals aren't actually tuned well enough to have concordant septimal intervals: pretending that they're always there is “revealing what meantone ''could be'' up to if tuned a specific way”, not what it “''is actually'' up to” as performed. Assuming that a piece composed in or influenced by meantone will be tuned in a way that supports a septimal interpretation is too much of a stretch — especially considering how much of the common-practice era applied meantone logic to well-tempered scales, which tend to optimize for better 5-limit intervals.

:: The septimal bait-and-switch pushes a deeply ahistorical interpretation in order to further the idea that ~every common chord should be interpreted as consonant. It's fine to present that idea as a possibility where it applies, but it shouldn't be taken as a given — especially when that obscures alternatives that ''don't'' require ahistorical assumptions.

:: --[[User:Bcmills|Bcmills]] ([[User talk:Bcmills|talk]]) 12:59, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

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 : The most important corollary of accepting meantone as a 7-limit temp is just that: introducing a number of essentially tempered chords, and to realize most if not all chords in common practice were 9-odd-limit concords, either essentially tempered or essentially just. While many consider 9-odd-limit as concordance and thus will rule out discordance in the analysis of common practice music, septimal intervals and the related essentially tempered chords are still more complex, and contextually later, than say 5-limit triads, so that treating them as discordance is still possible. Since they are basically free to be laid on or taken out, the distinction of classical and septimal meantone seems practically pointless. I can only see the need of it in very technical contexts such as tuning optimization. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:32, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
+:: It may be true that “you get septimal intervals for free” in the RTT mapping, but in many common tunings of meantone the septimal intervals aren't actually tuned well enough to have concordant septimal intervals: pretending that they're always there is “revealing what meantone ''could be'' up to if tuned a specific way”, not what it “''is actually'' up to” as performed. Assuming that a piece composed in or influenced by meantone will be tuned in a way that supports a septimal interpretation is too much of a stretch — especially considering how much of the common-practice era applied meantone logic to well-tempered scales, which tend to optimize for better 5-limit intervals.
+:: The septimal bait-and-switch pushes a deeply ahistorical interpretation in order to further the idea that ~every common chord should be interpreted as consonant. It's fine to present that idea as a possibility where it applies, but it shouldn't be taken as a given — especially when that obscures alternatives that ''don't'' require ahistorical assumptions.
+:: --[[User:Bcmills|Bcmills]] ([[User talk:Bcmills|talk]]) 12:59, 24 August 2024 (UTC)