User talk:Aura: Difference between revisions

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:::: Yes, I do. However, this raises the question of what to do for intervals like 256/225, which naturally occurs between the seventh and second scale degrees in the just versions of the Greater Neapolitan and Lesser Neapolitan scales- otherwise known as the Neapolitan Major and Neapolitan Minor scales respectively. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 03:44, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

:::: Okay... I have an idea... So, I'm looking at this page [[https://en.xen.wiki/w/SHEFKHED_interval_names]], as well as this page [[https://en.xen.wiki/w/Gallery_of_just_intervals]], and I notice that there's more than one "minor third" and more than one "major third". The same is true of intervals such as supermajor thirds and subminor thirds- particularly for equal divisions of the octave where the septimal kleisma is not tempered out, such as in 159edo. With that in mind, I'm thinking we should disambiguate between different intervals in the same general range. We can build directly off of the SHEFKHED interval naming system for the basics, though with the difference that any Pythagorean interval other than the Perfect Prime, the Perfect Octave, the Perfect Fifth and the Perfect Fourth with an odd limit of 243 or less should gain the explicit label of "Diatonic"- this lends itself to names such as "Diatonic Major Sixth" for 27/16. Following along this same line of thinking for 5-limit intervals, we can similarly build off of the SHEFKHED interval naming system and explicitly label both 5/4 and 8/5, as well as intervals connected to them by a chain of Perfect Fifths "Diatonic"- assuming the odd limit for said interval is 45 or less. Among the end results of this are that 5/3 is labeled the "Classic Diatonic Major Sixth". I'm currently thinking that certain other 5-limit intervals should also gain the label "Classic" such as 25/16 or even 25/24... --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 06:58, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

::::: Hello and thx for contributing your ideas! This topic is of my interest and I actually opened a conversation on our FB group on how we may call most 5-limit intervals. To summarize, some would use "pental" for 5-limit intervals, some others would default to simplest ratios in the group and add definitives when needed, but the solution most convincing to me is to call any Pythagorean intervals "Pythagorean" and any 5-limit intervals "classic" (sometimes "grave/acute" for high-odd-limit intervals), though to distinguish 25/24 from 135/128 this needs further disambiguation. I'd also refrain from a meantone-centrist view, where "aug" and "dim" are sometimes abused e.g. "aug sixth" for 7/4, which is only true in meantone. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:24, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

:::::: For the record, I'm doing this with 159edo in mind, and this is not a meantone temperament as the syntonic comma is not tempered out. I'm not keen on using too many numeric descriptors like "pental" or "septimal" or even "undecimal" for this particular idea, as at the end of the day, my goal is to build off of the SHEFKHED interval naming system for EDOs up to 160edo. I should also point out that not all Pythagorean intervals are Diatonic intervals- only those with an odd limit of 243 or less, therefore, I'm thinking that "Diatonic" is the label that ought to be privileged over "Pythagorean". On a semi-related note, my preferred major scale consists of the intervals 1/1, 9/8, 5/4, 4/3, 3/2, 27/16, 15/8, and 2/1, and I do in fact build directly off of this scale for my diatonic chords- yes, the grave fifth occurs between the sixth and the third, and for me, this serves to amplify the diatonic functions of the VIm chord, as this kind of tuning says "we're not done yet", especially in deceptive cadences. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 15:39, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

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 :::: Yes, I do.  However, this raises the question of what to do for intervals like 256/225, which naturally occurs between the seventh and second scale degrees in the just versions of the Greater Neapolitan and Lesser Neapolitan scales- otherwise known as the Neapolitan Major and Neapolitan Minor scales respectively. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 03:44, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 :::: Okay...  I have an idea...  So, I'm looking at this page [[https://en.xen.wiki/w/SHEFKHED_interval_names]], as well as this page [[https://en.xen.wiki/w/Gallery_of_just_intervals]], and I notice that there's more than one "minor third" and more than one "major third".  The same is true of intervals such as supermajor thirds and subminor thirds- particularly for equal divisions of the octave where the septimal kleisma is not tempered out, such as in 159edo.  With that in mind, I'm thinking we should disambiguate between different intervals in the same general range.  We can build directly off of the SHEFKHED interval naming system for the basics, though with the difference that any Pythagorean interval other than the Perfect Prime, the Perfect Octave, the Perfect Fifth and the Perfect Fourth with an odd limit of 243 or less should gain the explicit label of "Diatonic"- this lends itself to names such as "Diatonic Major Sixth" for 27/16.  Following along this same line of thinking for 5-limit intervals, we can similarly build off of the SHEFKHED interval naming system and explicitly label both 5/4 and 8/5, as well as intervals connected to them by a chain of Perfect Fifths "Diatonic"- assuming the odd limit for said interval is 45 or less.  Among the end results of this are that 5/3 is labeled the "Classic Diatonic Major Sixth".  I'm currently thinking that certain other 5-limit intervals should also gain the label "Classic" such as 25/16 or even 25/24... --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 06:58, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
 ::::: Hello and thx for contributing your ideas! This topic is of my interest and I actually opened a conversation on our FB group on how we may call most 5-limit intervals. To summarize, some would use "pental" for 5-limit intervals, some others would default to simplest ratios in the group and add definitives when needed, but the solution most convincing to me is to call any Pythagorean intervals "Pythagorean" and any 5-limit intervals "classic" (sometimes "grave/acute" for high-odd-limit intervals), though to distinguish 25/24 from 135/128 this needs further disambiguation. I'd also refrain from a meantone-centrist view, where "aug" and "dim" are sometimes abused e.g. "aug sixth" for 7/4, which is only true in meantone. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:24, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
+:::::: For the record, I'm doing this with 159edo in mind, and this is not a meantone temperament as the syntonic comma is not tempered out.  I'm not keen on using too many numeric descriptors like "pental" or "septimal" or even "undecimal" for this particular idea, as at the end of the day, my goal is to build off of the SHEFKHED interval naming system for EDOs up to 160edo.  I should also point out that not all Pythagorean intervals are Diatonic intervals- only those with an odd limit of 243 or less, therefore, I'm thinking that "Diatonic" is the label that ought to be privileged over "Pythagorean".  On a semi-related note, my preferred major scale consists of the intervals 1/1, 9/8, 5/4, 4/3, 3/2, 27/16, 15/8, and 2/1, and I do in fact build directly off of this scale for my diatonic chords- yes, the grave fifth occurs between the sixth and the third, and for me, this serves to amplify the diatonic functions of the VIm chord, as this kind of tuning says "we're not done yet", especially in deceptive cadences. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 15:39, 1 September 2020 (UTC)