Syntonic–diatonic equivalence continuum: Difference between revisions
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256/243 is the characteristic [[3-limit]] comma tempered out in 5edo, and has many advantages as a target. In each case, ''n'' equals the order of [[5/1|harmonic 5]] in the corresponding comma, and equals the number of generators to obtain a harmonic 3 in the generator chain. For example: | 256/243 is the characteristic [[3-limit]] comma tempered out in 5edo, and has many advantages as a target. In each case, ''n'' equals the order of [[5/1|harmonic 5]] in the corresponding comma, and equals the number of generators to obtain a harmonic 3 in the generator chain. For example: | ||
* Superpyth {{nowrap| | * Superpyth ({{nowrap| ''n'' {{=}} 1 }}) is generated by a fifth; | ||
* Immunity {{nowrap| | * Immunity ({{nowrap| ''n'' {{=}} 2 }}) splits its twelfth in two; | ||
* Rodan {{nowrap| | * Rodan ({{nowrap| ''n'' {{=}} 3 }}) splits its fifth in three; | ||
* Etc. | * Etc. | ||
At {{nowrap|''n'' {{=}} 5}}, the corresponding temperament splits the ''octave'' into five instead, as after a stack of five syntonic commas, both the orders of 3 and 5 are multiples of 5 again. | At {{nowrap| ''n'' {{=}} 5 }}, the corresponding temperament splits the ''octave'' into five instead, as after a stack of five syntonic commas, both the orders of 3 and 5 are multiples of 5 again. | ||
If we let {{nowrap|''k'' {{=}} ''n'' + 1}} so that {{nowrap|''k'' {{=}} 0}} means {{nowrap|''n'' {{=}} | If we let {{nowrap| ''k'' {{=}} ''n'' + 1 }} so that {{nowrap| ''k'' {{=}} 0 }} means {{nowrap|''n'' {{=}} −1}}, {{nowrap| ''k'' {{=}} 1 }} means {{nowrap| ''n'' {{=}} 0 }}, etc. then the continuum corresponds to {{nowrap| (81/80)<sup>''k''</sup> {{=}} 16/15 }}. Some prefer this way of conceptualising it because: | ||
* 16/15 is the classic diatonic semitone, notable in the 5-limit as the difference between 4/3 and 5/4, so this shifted continuum could also logically be termed the "syntonic–diatonic equivalence continuum". This means that at {{nowrap|''k'' {{=}} 0}}, 4/3 and 5/4 are mapped to the same interval while 81/80 becomes independent of 16/15 (meaning 81/80 may or may not be tempered) because the relation becomes {{nowrap|(81/80)<sup>0</sup> ~ 1/1 ~ 16/15}}. | * 16/15 is the classic diatonic semitone, notable in the 5-limit as the difference between 4/3 and 5/4, so this shifted continuum could also logically be termed the "syntonic–diatonic equivalence continuum". This means that at {{nowrap| ''k'' {{=}} 0 }}, 4/3 and 5/4 are mapped to the same interval while 81/80 becomes independent of 16/15 (meaning 81/80 may or may not be tempered out) because the relation becomes {{nowrap| (81/80)<sup>0</sup> ~ 1/1 ~ 16/15 }}. | ||
* {{nowrap|''k'' {{=}} 1}} and upwards (up to a point) represent temperaments with | * {{nowrap| ''k'' {{=}} 1 }} and upwards (up to a point) represent temperaments with the potential for reasonably good accuracy as equating at least one 81/80 with 16/15 seems like a good lower bound for a temperament intended to model JI. A good upper bound might be rodan ({{nowrap| ''k'' {{=}} 4 }}), with the only exception being meantone ({{nowrap| ''n'' {{=}} ''k'' {{=}} ∞ }}). (Temperaments corresponding to {{nowrap| ''k'' {{=}} 0, −1, −2, … }} are comparatively low-accuracy to the point of developing various intriguing structures and consequences.) | ||
* 16/15 is the simplest ratio to be tempered in the continuum. | * 16/15 is the simplest ratio to be tempered out in the continuum. | ||
{| class="wikitable center-1 center-2" | {| class="wikitable center-1 center-2" | ||
| Line 32: | Line 32: | ||
| Laquadgu (5 & 28) | | Laquadgu (5 & 28) | ||
| [[177147/160000]] | | [[177147/160000]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| -8 11 -4 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| −2 | | −2 | ||
| Line 38: | Line 38: | ||
| [[Gamelismic clan #Gorgo|Laconic]] | | [[Gamelismic clan #Gorgo|Laconic]] | ||
| [[2187/2000]] | | [[2187/2000]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| -4 7 -3 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| −1 | | −1 | ||
| Line 44: | Line 44: | ||
| [[Bug]] | | [[Bug]] | ||
| [[27/25]] | | [[27/25]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 0 3 -2 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 0 | | 0 | ||
| Line 50: | Line 50: | ||
| [[Father]] | | [[Father]] | ||
| [[16/15]] | | [[16/15]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 4 -1 -1 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 1 | | 1 | ||
| Line 56: | Line 56: | ||
| [[Blackwood]] | | [[Blackwood]] | ||
| [[256/243]] | | [[256/243]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 8 -5 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 2 | | 2 | ||
| Line 62: | Line 62: | ||
| [[Superpyth]] | | [[Superpyth]] | ||
| [[20480/19683]] | | [[20480/19683]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 12 -9 1 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 3 | | 3 | ||
| Line 68: | Line 68: | ||
| [[Immunity]] | | [[Immunity]] | ||
| [[1638400/1594323]] | | [[1638400/1594323]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 16 -13 2 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 4 | | 4 | ||
| Line 74: | Line 74: | ||
| [[Rodan]] | | [[Rodan]] | ||
| [[131072000/129140163]] | | [[131072000/129140163]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 20 -17 3 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 5 | | 5 | ||
| Line 80: | Line 80: | ||
| [[Vulture]] | | [[Vulture]] | ||
| [[10485760000/10460353203|(22 digits)]] | | [[10485760000/10460353203|(22 digits)]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 24 -21 4 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 6 | | 6 | ||
| Line 86: | Line 86: | ||
| [[Quintile]] | | [[Quintile]] | ||
| (24 digits) | | (24 digits) | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| -28 25 -5 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 7 | | 7 | ||
| Line 92: | Line 92: | ||
| [[Hemiseven]] | | [[Hemiseven]] | ||
| (28 digits) | | (28 digits) | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| -32 29 -6 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| … | | … | ||
| Line 103: | Line 103: | ||
| [[Meantone]] | | [[Meantone]] | ||
| [[81/80]] | | [[81/80]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| -4 4 -1 }} | ||
|} | |} | ||
We may invert the continuum by setting ''m'' such that 1/''m'' + 1/''n'' = 1. This may be called the '' | We may invert the continuum by setting ''m'' such that {{nowrap| 1/''m'' + 1/''n'' {{=}} 1 }}. This may be called the ''superpyth–diatonic equivalence continuum'', which is essentially the same thing. The just value of ''m'' is 1.3130…. The [[superpyth comma]] is both larger and more complex than the syntonic comma. As such, this continuum does not contain as many useful temperaments, but still interesting nonetheless. | ||
{| class="wikitable center-1" | {| class="wikitable center-1" | ||
| Line 121: | Line 121: | ||
| [[Ultrapyth]] | | [[Ultrapyth]] | ||
| [[5242880/4782969]] | | [[5242880/4782969]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 20 -14 1 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 0 | | 0 | ||
| [[Blackwood]] | | [[Blackwood]] | ||
| [[256/243]] | | [[256/243]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 8 -5 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 1 | | 1 | ||
| [[Meantone]] | | [[Meantone]] | ||
| [[81/80]] | | [[81/80]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| -4 4 -1 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 2 | | 2 | ||
| [[Immunity]] | | [[Immunity]] | ||
| [[1638400/1594323]] | | [[1638400/1594323]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 16 -13 2 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 3 | | 3 | ||
| 5 & 56 | | 5 & 56 | ||
| [[33554432000/31381059609]] | | [[33554432000/31381059609]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 28 -22 3 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| … | | … | ||
| Line 151: | Line 151: | ||
| [[Superpyth]] | | [[Superpyth]] | ||
| [[20480/19683]] | | [[20480/19683]] | ||
| {{ | | {{Monzo| 12 -9 1 }} | ||
|} | |} | ||
| Line 159: | Line 159: | ||
! ''n'' !! ''m'' !! Temperament !! Comma | ! ''n'' !! ''m'' !! Temperament !! Comma | ||
|- | |- | ||
| −3/2 = −1.5 || 3/5 = 0.6 || [[University]] || {{ | | −3/2 = −1.5 || 3/5 = 0.6 || [[University]] || {{Monzo| 4 2 -3 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| −1/2 = −0.5 || 1/3 = 0.{{overline|3}} || [[Uncle]] || {{ | | −1/2 = −0.5 || 1/3 = 0.{{overline|3}} || [[Uncle]] || {{Monzo| 12 -6 -1 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 1/3 = 0.{{overline|3}} || −1/2 = −0.5 || [[Dirt]] || {{ | | 1/3 = 0.{{overline|3}} || −1/2 = −0.5 || [[Dirt]] || {{Monzo| 28 -19 1 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 5/2 = 2.5 || 5/3 = 1.{{overline|6}} || [[Counterpental]] || {{ | | 5/2 = 2.5 || 5/3 = 1.{{overline|6}} || [[Counterpental]] || {{Monzo| 36 -30 5 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 7/2 = 3.5 || 7/5 = 1.4 || [[Septiquarter]] || {{ | | 7/2 = 3.5 || 7/5 = 1.4 || [[Septiquarter]] || {{Monzo| 44 -38 7 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 21/5 = 4.2 || 21/16 = 1.3125 || 559 & | | 21/5 = 4.2 || 21/16 = 1.3125 || 559 & 2513 || {{Monzo| -124 109 -21 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 9/2 = 4.5 || 9/7 = 1.{{overline|285714}} || 5 & | | 9/2 = 4.5 || 9/7 = 1.{{overline|285714}} || 5 & 118 || {{Monzo| -52 46 -9 }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 11/2 = 5.5 || 11/9 = 1.{{overline|2}} || 5 & | | 11/2 = 5.5 || 11/9 = 1.{{overline|2}} || 5 & 137 || {{Monzo| -60 54 -11 }} | ||
|} | |} | ||
| Line 179: | Line 179: | ||
: ''For extensions, see [[Archytas clan #Superpyth]] and [[Jubilismic clan #Bipyth]].'' | : ''For extensions, see [[Archytas clan #Superpyth]] and [[Jubilismic clan #Bipyth]].'' | ||
In the 5-limit, superpyth tempers out [[20480/19683]]. It has a fifth generator of ~3/2 = ~ | In the 5-limit, superpyth tempers out [[20480/19683]]. It has a fifth generator of {{nowrap| ~3/2 {{=}} ~710{{c}} }} and ~5/4 is found at +9 generator steps, as an augmented second (C–D#). It corresponds to {{nowrap| ''n'' {{=}} 1 }}, meaning that the syntonic comma is equated with the diatonic semitone. | ||
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | ||
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: ''For extensions, see [[Archytas clan #Ultrapyth]].'' | : ''For extensions, see [[Archytas clan #Ultrapyth]].'' | ||
The 5-limit version of ultrapyth tempers out the [[ultrapyth comma]]. It is generated by a perfect fifth. The interval class of 5 is found at +14 fifths as a double-augmented unison (C–Cx). It corresponds to {{nowrap|''m'' {{=}} -1}} and {{nowrap|''n'' {{=}} 1/2}}. | The 5-limit version of ultrapyth tempers out the [[ultrapyth comma]]. It is generated by a perfect fifth. The interval class of 5 is found at +14 fifths as a double-augmented unison (C–Cx). It corresponds to {{nowrap| ''m'' {{=}} -1 }} and {{nowrap| ''n'' {{=}} 1/2 }}. | ||
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | ||
| Line 316: | Line 316: | ||
: ''For extensions, see [[Gamelismic clan #Gidorah]] and [[Mint temperaments #Penta]].'' | : ''For extensions, see [[Gamelismic clan #Gidorah]] and [[Mint temperaments #Penta]].'' | ||
Named by [[John Moriarty]], university is the 5 & 6b temperament, and tempers out [[144/125]], the triptolemaic diminished third. It corresponds to ''n'' = −3/2 and ''m'' = 3/5. In this temperament, two instances of [[6/5]] make a [[5/4]], and three make a [[3/2]]. Equating 6/5 with [[8/7]] (which makes sense since it is already very flat in the most accurate tunings of this temperament) leads to [[Gamelismic clan #Gidorah|gidorah]], and 6/5 with [[7/6]] leads to [[Mint temperaments #Penta|penta]]. | Named by [[John Moriarty]], university is the {{nowrap| 5 & 6b }} temperament, and tempers out [[144/125]], the triptolemaic diminished third. It corresponds to {{nowrap| ''n'' {{=}} −3/2 }} and {{nowrap| ''m'' {{=}} 3/5 }}. In this temperament, two instances of [[6/5]] make a [[5/4]], and three make a [[3/2]]. Equating 6/5 with [[8/7]] (which makes sense since it is already very flat in the most accurate tunings of this temperament) leads to [[Gamelismic clan #Gidorah|gidorah]], and 6/5 with [[7/6]] leads to [[Mint temperaments #Penta|penta]]. | ||
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | ||
| Line 334: | Line 334: | ||
[[Badness]] (Smith): 0.101806 | [[Badness]] (Smith): 0.101806 | ||
== Trisatriyo (5 & | == Trisatriyo (5 & 56) == | ||
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | ||
[[Comma list]]: {{monzo| 28 -22 3 }} | [[Comma list]]: {{monzo| 28 -22 3 }} (33554432000/31381059609) | ||
{{Mapping|legend=1| 1 1 -2 | 0 3 22 }} | {{Mapping|legend=1| 1 1 -2 | 0 3 22 }} | ||
| Line 406: | Line 406: | ||
[[Badness]] (Smith): 0.971284 | [[Badness]] (Smith): 0.971284 | ||
== Quinla-tritrigu (5 & | == Quinla-tritrigu (5 & 118) == | ||
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | ||
| Line 422: | Line 422: | ||
[[Badness]] (Smith): 0.617683 | [[Badness]] (Smith): 0.617683 | ||
== Tribilalegu (5 & | == Tribilalegu (5 & 137) == | ||
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | ||
| Line 440: | Line 440: | ||
[http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?ets=5_137&limit=5 The temperament finder - 5-limit 5 & 137] | [http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?ets=5_137&limit=5 The temperament finder - 5-limit 5 & 137] | ||
== 559 & | == 559 & 2513 == | ||
[[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | [[Subgroup]]: 2.3.5 | ||