Talk:Diesis (scale theory): Difference between revisions

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: Nah, the diesis is always positive (in size, not in diatonic degrees!) cuz it essentially refers to a distance. The "negative" modifier is confusing anyway so I'd recommend against attaching it to an interval name. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 16:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

:: This is the scale theory diesis, not the interval region. Having the diesis be always positive in span introduces an inconsistency: if you have d2 to be the diesis in all diatonics, you can confidently say that C# + diesis = Db in all cases, resulting in a movement up the scale, down two chromas; but that will necessarily create negative dieses in hard diatonic (there are hundreds of instances of "negative" being used (mostly commas...)). Extending to all MOS scales, the mosdiesis is small step minus chroma (2s-L).

:: IF instead you declare the diesis to be d2 or -d2, whatever spans positively, then C# + diesis = Db doesn't always hold, introducing an inconsistency in the diatonic: does the diesis go up or down the scale?

:: Besides, having the diesis allow sign within the confines of its MOS range allows both the positive and negative dieses to have different functions and be treated distinctly; and in the case of meantone and schismic, they very often '''do''' serve different functions. --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

::: The scale theory and interval region senses are related. They refer to a positive interval in size, as it always has been. I absolutely don't think it makes sense to have C# + diesis = Db in temps such as garibaldi, where the positive interval plays an important role of bending a Pythagorean interval to classical or septimal one. We have to be braindead if we refer to this interval as the "negative diesis" (whatever that means).

::: Whether the diesis go up or down the diatonic degrees depends on which chromatic scale we're using. I think of this as a feature rather than a bug, just like whether the chroma goes up or down the diatonic degrees depends on which "diatonic" scale (diatonic or antidiatonic) we're using.

::: —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

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 : Nah, the diesis is always positive (in size, not in diatonic degrees!) cuz it essentially refers to a distance. The "negative" modifier is confusing anyway so I'd recommend against attaching it to an interval name. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 16:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
+:: This is the scale theory diesis, not the interval region. Having the diesis be always positive in span introduces an inconsistency: if you have d2 to be the diesis in all diatonics, you can confidently say that C# + diesis = Db in all cases, resulting in a movement up the scale, down two chromas; but that will necessarily create negative dieses in hard diatonic (there are hundreds of instances of "negative" being used (mostly commas...)). Extending to all MOS scales, the mosdiesis is small step minus chroma (2s-L).
+:: IF instead you declare the diesis to be d2 or -d2, whatever spans positively, then C# + diesis = Db doesn't always hold, introducing an inconsistency in the diatonic: does the diesis go up or down the scale?
+:: Besides, having the diesis allow sign within the confines of its MOS range allows both the positive and negative dieses to have different functions and be treated distinctly; and in the case of meantone and schismic, they very often '''do''' serve different functions. --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC)
+::: The scale theory and interval region senses are related. They refer to a positive interval in size, as it always has been. I absolutely don't think it makes sense to have C# + diesis = Db in temps such as garibaldi, where the positive interval plays an important role of bending a Pythagorean interval to classical or septimal one. We have to be braindead if we refer to this interval as the "negative diesis" (whatever that means).
+::: Whether the diesis go up or down the diatonic degrees depends on which chromatic scale we're using. I think of this as a feature rather than a bug, just like whether the chroma goes up or down the diatonic degrees depends on which "diatonic" scale (diatonic or antidiatonic) we're using.
+::: —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC)