Talk:Meantone family: Difference between revisions

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:::::::: We also should maybe address hemimeantone, semimeantone, and bimeantone. I think the issue with most of these extensions is that they're best treated outside of the hierarchy of prime limits (trimean definitely is, since no-sevens superpine is more natural compared to either of its extensions to prime 7), but other than that I'm not sure of the redundancy of any of them. --[[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 22:59, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: Hmm, my only minor issue is 13-limit grosstone's canonicity w.r.t. 11-limit huygens. I have my own doubts here, and as I showed you in the archive, at least two ppl believed it was actually inferior to the current 13-limit meantone for one reason or another. Meanwhile, I do think the current 17- and 19-limit grosstone are good enough to be virtual canon w.r.t. 13-limit grosstone so I might call it ''grosstonic'' (cf. ''miraculous'' and ''miracle''). So these all point to not changing 13-limit grosstone itself. (Renaming it to something completely different is another topic.)

::::::::: I don't see a problem with hemimeantone, semimeantone, or bimeantone. They are 43 & 62, 62 & 74, and 38df & 50, respectively, which all look reasonable as they are. The 50 & 62 temp is even missing, which we may call semimeanpop. Trimean is 43 & 50 and superpine is 36 & 43. The 2.3.5.11.13 part are the same and 43edo is the turning point for primes 7, 17, and 19. I see that the 2.3.5.11.13-subgroup temp is already documented in the No-sevens subgroup temperaments page. Does that mean the 7-limit-based entries should be removed from this page? Idk.

::::::::: [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:52, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: P.S. I propose ''fokkertone'' for current 13-limit meantone, in analog to ''meridetone''.

=== Summary of changes ===

Based on the review above, the following changes have been made.

# Decanonicalized tridecimal meantone. Renamed it to ''fokkertone''.

# Canonicalized 17- and 19-limit huygens w.r.t. tridecimal meantone, thus effectively also renaming it to ''fokkertone''. Removed meantonic, the other 17- and 19-limit extension of tridecimal meantone.

# Canonicalized 17- and 19-limit sauveric, thus effectively renaming it to ''meridetone''. Removed meridetonic, the other 17- and 19-limit extension of meridetone.

# Removed meanplop (12e & 19), the other 13-limit extension of 11-limit meanpop.

# Removed meanundec (12f & 19f), a 13-limit extension of 11-limit meanenneadecal.

# Removed meanundeci (12e & 19e), an 11-limit extension of septimal meantone.

# Removed domineering and arnold, two extensions of dominant, from the 13-limit onwards.

# Added mildtone (55 & 67) for the 7-limit.

# Add semimeanpop (50 & 62) up to the 19-limit.

=== Remaining tasks ===

# Devise names for the three 17- and 19-limit extensions of grosstone: 31 & 74, 43 & 74, and possibly 31 & 43.

[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:38, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

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 :::::::: We also should maybe address hemimeantone, semimeantone, and bimeantone. I think the issue with most of these extensions is that they're best treated outside of the hierarchy of prime limits (trimean definitely is, since no-sevens superpine is more natural compared to either of its extensions to prime 7), but other than that I'm not sure of the redundancy of any of them. --[[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 22:59, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
+::::::::: Hmm, my only minor issue is 13-limit grosstone's canonicity w.r.t. 11-limit huygens. I have my own doubts here, and as I showed you in the archive, at least two ppl believed it was actually inferior to the current 13-limit meantone for one reason or another. Meanwhile, I do think the current 17- and 19-limit grosstone are good enough to be virtual canon w.r.t. 13-limit grosstone so I might call it ''grosstonic'' (cf. ''miraculous'' and ''miracle''). So these all point to not changing 13-limit grosstone itself. (Renaming it to something completely different is another topic.)
+::::::::: I don't see a problem with hemimeantone, semimeantone, or bimeantone. They are 43 & 62, 62 & 74, and 38df & 50, respectively, which all look reasonable as they are. The 50 & 62 temp is even missing, which we may call semimeanpop. Trimean is 43 & 50 and superpine is 36 & 43. The 2.3.5.11.13 part are the same and 43edo is the turning point for primes 7, 17, and 19. I see that the 2.3.5.11.13-subgroup temp is already documented in the No-sevens subgroup temperaments page. Does that mean the 7-limit-based entries should be removed from this page? Idk.
+::::::::: [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:52, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
+::::::::: P.S. I propose ''fokkertone'' for current 13-limit meantone, in analog to ''meridetone''.
+=== Summary of changes ===
+Based on the review above, the following changes have been made.
+# Decanonicalized tridecimal meantone. Renamed it to ''fokkertone''.
+# Canonicalized 17- and 19-limit huygens w.r.t. tridecimal meantone, thus effectively also renaming it to ''fokkertone''. Removed meantonic, the other 17- and 19-limit extension of tridecimal meantone.
+# Canonicalized 17- and 19-limit sauveric, thus effectively renaming it to ''meridetone''. Removed meridetonic, the other 17- and 19-limit extension of meridetone.
+# Removed meanplop (12e & 19), the other 13-limit extension of 11-limit meanpop.
+# Removed meanundec (12f & 19f), a 13-limit extension of 11-limit meanenneadecal.
+# Removed meanundeci (12e & 19e), an 11-limit extension of septimal meantone.
+# Removed domineering and arnold, two extensions of dominant, from the 13-limit onwards.
+# Added mildtone (55 & 67) for the 7-limit.
+# Add semimeanpop (50 & 62) up to the 19-limit.
+=== Remaining tasks ===
+# Devise names for the three 17- and 19-limit extensions of grosstone: 31 & 74, 43 & 74, and possibly 31 & 43.
+[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:38, 22 October 2025 (UTC)