352/351: Difference between revisions
made a hopefully useful detail more explicit |
Move relevant temp info from the chords page |
||
| (3 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown) | |||
| Line 4: | Line 4: | ||
| Comma = yes | | Comma = yes | ||
}} | }} | ||
'''352/351''', the '''major minthma''', '''major gentle comma''' or '''11/13-kleisma''' is a [[small comma|small]] [[13-limit]] (also 2.3.11.13 [[subgroup]]) [[comma]] measuring about 4.9{{cent}}. This comma can be described in a number of ways. First, it is the difference between the tridecimal minor third of [[13/11]] and the Pythagorean minor third of [[32/27]], hence the name ''11/13''-kleisma. | '''352/351''', the '''major minthma''', '''major gentle comma''' or '''11/13-kleisma''' is a [[small comma|small]] [[13-limit]] (also 2.3.11.13 [[subgroup]]) [[comma]] measuring about 4.9{{cent}}. This comma can be described in a number of ways. First, it is the difference between the tridecimal minor third of [[13/11]] and the Pythagorean minor third of [[32/27]], hence the name ''11/13''-kleisma. This means that when this comma is [[tempering out|tempered out]], 11/8 plus three perfect fourths octave reduces to 13/8; as such, this comma can be understood as relating harmonics 11 and 13 by a chain of fourths. Second, it is the difference between various tridecimal intervals and their adjacent undecimal intervals such as: | ||
* Between the tridecimal quartertone of [[1053/1024]] and the undecimal quartertone of [[33/32]]; | * Between the tridecimal quartertone of [[1053/1024]] and the undecimal quartertone of [[33/32]]; | ||
* Between [[16/13]] and [[27/22]]; and | * Between [[16/13]] and [[27/22]]; and | ||
| Line 12: | Line 12: | ||
== Temperaments == | == Temperaments == | ||
Tempering out this comma leads to a form of '''major minthmic temperament''' (full 13-limit rank-5) or '''majorminth temperament''' (2.3.11.13 subgroup rank-3), which enables [[major minthmic chords]]. | Tempering out this comma leads to a form of '''major minthmic temperament''' (full 13-limit rank-5) or '''majorminth temperament''' (2.3.11.13 subgroup rank-3), which enables [[major minthmic chords]]. Mintha was a nymph turned into a mint plant by a goddess whom she got in the way of<ref>[https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0104%3Aalphabetic+letter%3DM%3Aentry+group%3D26%3Aentry%3Dmintha-bio-1 ''Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology''] – William Smith (1849)</ref><ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20221230130135/http://mythandreligion.upatras.gr/english/__trashed/ ''Dictionary of Classical Mythology''] – M. R. Wright (2012)</ref><ref>[https://www.greekboston.com/culture/mythology/minthe ''All About Minthe – Myth of Greek Mythology''] – Greek Boston (2024)</ref>, and major minthmic tempering has the slightly sharp, minty-fresh fifths some people appreciate. [[Margo Schulter]] has expressed great fondness for this comma, for example. | ||
== Sagittal notation == | == Notation == | ||
=== Sagittal notation === | |||
In the [[Sagittal]] system, the downward version of this comma (possibly tempered) is represented (in a secondary role) by the sagittal {{sagittal | !( }} and is called the '''13/11 kleisma''', or '''13/11k''' for short, because the simplest interval it notates is 13/11, as for example in D-F{{nbhsp}}{{sagittal | !( }}. The primary role of {{ sagittal | !( }} is [[5120/5103#Sagittal notation | 5103/5120]] (7/5k). The upward version is called '''11/13k''' or '''13/11k up''' and is represented (in a secondary role) by {{sagittal| |( }}. | In the [[Sagittal]] system, the downward version of this comma (possibly tempered) is represented (in a secondary role) by the sagittal {{sagittal | !( }} and is called the '''13/11 kleisma''', or '''13/11k''' for short, because the simplest interval it notates is 13/11, as for example in D-F{{nbhsp}}{{sagittal | !( }}. The primary role of {{ sagittal | !( }} is [[5120/5103#Sagittal notation | 5103/5120]] (7/5k). The upward version is called '''11/13k''' or '''13/11k up''' and is represented (in a secondary role) by {{sagittal| |( }}. | ||
| Line 20: | Line 21: | ||
This comma was known as the ''minthma'' from 2011. The word ''minthma'' is a contraction of ''minor thirds comma'' into a single word. In 2022, [[Margo Schulter]] requested it should be changed to ''major''/''greater minthma'' to distinguish it from [[364/363]], which would gain the name ''minor''/''lesser minthma''. | This comma was known as the ''minthma'' from 2011. The word ''minthma'' is a contraction of ''minor thirds comma'' into a single word. In 2022, [[Margo Schulter]] requested it should be changed to ''major''/''greater minthma'' to distinguish it from [[364/363]], which would gain the name ''minor''/''lesser minthma''. | ||
The ''major gentle comma'' was also added to this comma in contrast to the ''minor gentle comma'' of 364/363. Both commas were essential to define the [[gentle]] temperament. | The ''major gentle comma'' was also added to this comma in contrast to the ''minor gentle comma'' of 364/363. Both commas were essential to define the [[gentle]] temperament. Gentle was named for the [[gentle region|gentle fifth]], a mild version of the [[superpyth]] fifth. | ||
== See also == | == See also == | ||
* [[List of superparticular intervals]] | * [[List of superparticular intervals]] | ||
== Notes == | |||
[[Category:Major minthmic]] | [[Category:Major minthmic]] | ||
[[Category:Commas named for the intervals they stack]] | [[Category:Commas named for the intervals they stack]] | ||
[[Category:Commas | [[Category:Commas named for the generator of their temperament]] | ||