Talk:Relative interval error: Difference between revisions

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I also question "an edo which is the sum of some other edos have their relative errors additive". 13-edo and 18-edo both sharpen 3/2 a lot, but 31-edo flattens it slightly. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 06:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

: For 3/2, the 31 patent val (18\31) is different from the sum of 13edo and 18edo (8\13 + 11\18). It's the 31b val (19\31) that satisfies the additivity. To find the relative error of 18\31 you must reduce the error of 19\31 by exactly 100% (1 edostep). [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:28, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

: I'm not sure, but it seems that there is a bit of overlapping with the article [[Relative cent]], at least I tend to see both as synonyms of each other. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 07:40, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

:: Relative error is a type of error, whereas relative cent is a measurement of the relative error. It's possible to use other measurements. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:28, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

== Term "indirect mapping" ==

Can this interpreted as "derived mapping"? Direct means that a prime is mapped to EDO steps, while indirect means some expression involvin more than one prime is mapped. Is this correct? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 11:18, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

: To be precise, "direct" means a ratio, no matter whether it's part of the ji basis (i.e. prime) or not, is simply rounded to the closest edostep; "indirect" means using vals and monzos and take an inner product. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 12:52, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

:: Thanks for the explanation. Yes, only now I see, I that I mixed the sides up. I actually knew what you explained right now. I'm not sure if the word "indirect" is confusing here. My "derived" was seems also unclear. I find that "indirect" has something negative; what about "val mapping" or "val-based mapping"? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

::: I'm not attached to direct, but "val-based mapping" seems really mathy. You have to know what a val is to even begin to understand it. Speaking of terminology, I find "val" to be pretty confusing. IMO terminology should be at least somewhat self-explanatory. Like "edostep", which I coined but never said what it meant. I never had to, I just started using it and everyone got it at once. The literal meaning of val is value, or number, which isn't explanatory at all. That's why I prefer the term edomapping. "Patent val" is also confusing, because patent in the sense of obvious is, well, not obvious. I prefer "nearest edomapping", but you could make a case for "obvious edomapping". Anyway, just my opinions. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 05:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

:::: It's been quite some time. After trying a couple of different terms in the communication on Discord, I find "direct approximation" and "val mapping" are the least confusing combo. All it takes for a novice is to learn what a val is. Once that's done, no amibiguities could possibly arise. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 15:27, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 I also question "an edo which is the sum of some other edos have their relative errors additive". 13-edo and 18-edo both sharpen 3/2 a lot, but 31-edo flattens it slightly. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 06:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
+: For 3/2, the 31 patent val (18\31) is different from the sum of 13edo and 18edo (8\13 + 11\18). It's the 31b val (19\31) that satisfies the additivity. To find the relative error of 18\31 you must reduce the error of 19\31 by exactly 100% (1 edostep). [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:28, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
+: I'm not sure, but it seems that there is a bit of overlapping with the article [[Relative cent]], at least I tend to see both as synonyms of each other. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 07:40, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
+:: Relative error is a type of error, whereas relative cent is a measurement of the relative error. It's possible to use other measurements. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:28, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
+== Term "indirect mapping" ==
+Can this interpreted as "derived mapping"? Direct means that a prime is mapped to EDO steps, while indirect means some expression involvin more than one prime is mapped. Is this correct? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 11:18, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
+: To be precise, "direct" means a ratio, no matter whether it's part of the ji basis (i.e. prime) or not, is simply rounded to the closest edostep; "indirect" means using vals and monzos and take an inner product. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 12:52, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
+:: Thanks for the explanation. Yes, only now I see, I that I mixed the sides up. I actually knew what you explained right now. I'm not sure if the word "indirect" is confusing here. My "derived" was seems also unclear. I find that "indirect" has something negative; what about "val mapping" or "val-based mapping"? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
+::: I'm not attached to direct, but "val-based mapping" seems really mathy. You have to know what a val is to even begin to understand it. Speaking of terminology, I find "val" to be pretty confusing. IMO terminology should be at least somewhat self-explanatory. Like "edostep", which I coined but never said what it meant. I never had to, I just started using it and everyone got it at once. The literal meaning of val is value, or number, which isn't explanatory at all. That's why I prefer the term edomapping. "Patent val" is also confusing, because patent in the sense of obvious is, well, not obvious. I prefer "nearest edomapping", but you could make a case for "obvious edomapping". Anyway, just my opinions. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 05:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
+:::: It's been quite some time. After trying a couple of different terms in the communication on Discord, I find "direct approximation" and "val mapping" are the least confusing combo. All it takes for a novice is to learn what a val is. Once that's done, no amibiguities could possibly arise. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 15:27, 30 August 2021 (UTC)