User talk:Yourmusic Productions: Difference between revisions

Line 48:

Hi Yourmusic Productions, we are interested in your opinion about [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Things to do #Categories of interval pages|Categories of interval pages]], thanks in advance for taking the time. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:21, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

== Ups and downs notation tables on the EDO pages ==

Hi Yourmusic Productions, we seem to have dueling edits. I'm the inventor of ups and downs and I created most of the ups and downs columns in the intervals pages. We seem to have a difference of opinion about the importance of minimizing the number of ups and downs needed. In 41-edo, one could notate 13\41 (~5/4) as either vM3 or d4. The latter minimizes that number, but IMO is inferior. I'd rather see C vE G than C Fb G. I'd rather call the chord a downmajor chord than a sus-flat4 chord. Likewise for 22-edo's very similar-sounding 5/4, C vE G not C D# G, and C downmajor not C sus-sharp2. This is an important advantage of ups and downs: you never have to spell an interval in the 300-400¢ range as a 2nd or 4th. And in general the notes column needn't zigzag madly back and forth among the 7 letters, but can for the most part march steadily C D E F G A B C.

There is of course the atonal approach where there is no key, there are no clear chords, there's just various combinations of notes. In that case, chord spelling isn't so important. But even then, one wouldn't want to zigzag too much.

Perhaps there is a misconception about the notes column in the table, as opposed to the interval names columns, which I believe we agree about. The notes column is meant to show how the notes would be named in the key of D. Because the note names vary depending on the key, and 22-edo's vE would indeed be D#, if you're in the key of E. But it's too much to write out all the possible names for each note. So the note names should match the interval names. In 34-edo, 10\34 is a mid 3rd not a dim 4th, so in D, the note isn't Gb but ^^F. (BTW I chose the key of D because it's symmetrical, and therefore easier to proofread.)

Of course, we microtonalists often disagree, and you may prefer to see ups and downs used differently. But as the creator of the system, I feel I have the right to make the note columns as I see fit. So rather than editing what I've written, please consider other options. The first thing to try is discussing your opinions directly with me and see if one of us can change the other's mind. The discussion tab of the ups and downs page might be a good place for that. Another is to create your own xenwiki page about your preferred ups and downs style, and link to it from the ups and downs page. Or maybe add a paragraph to certain edo pages. The beauty of the xenwiki is that it allows room for each of us to advocate for different approaches.

BTW, looking over the note columns, I see I haven't been totally consistent in choosing when to include enharmonic equivalents. I'll be updating those shortly.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing from you! :) --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 00:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

@@ Line 48: / Line 48: @@
 Hi Yourmusic Productions, we are interested in your opinion about [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Things to do #Categories of interval pages|Categories of interval pages]], thanks in advance for taking the time. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:21, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
+== Ups and downs notation tables on the EDO pages ==
+Hi Yourmusic Productions, we seem to have dueling edits. I'm the inventor of ups and downs and I created most of the ups and downs columns in the intervals pages. We seem to have a difference of opinion about the importance of minimizing the number of ups and downs needed. In 41-edo, one could notate 13\41 (~5/4) as either vM3 or d4. The latter minimizes that number, but IMO is inferior. I'd rather see C vE G than C Fb G. I'd rather call the chord a downmajor chord than a sus-flat4 chord. Likewise for 22-edo's very similar-sounding 5/4, C vE G not C D# G, and C downmajor not C sus-sharp2. This is an important advantage of ups and downs: you never have to spell an interval in the 300-400¢ range as a 2nd or 4th. And in general the notes column needn't zigzag madly back and forth among the 7 letters, but can for the most part march steadily C D E F G A B C.
+There is of course the atonal approach where there is no key, there are no clear chords, there's just various combinations of notes. In that case, chord spelling isn't so important. But even then, one wouldn't want to zigzag too much.
+Perhaps there is a misconception about the notes column in the table, as opposed to the interval names columns, which I believe we agree about. The notes column is meant to show how the notes would be named in the key of D. Because the note names vary depending on the key, and 22-edo's vE would indeed be D#, if you're in the key of E. But it's too much to write out all the possible names for each note. So the note names should match the interval names. In 34-edo, 10\34 is a mid 3rd not a dim 4th, so in D, the note isn't Gb but ^^F. (BTW I chose the key of D because it's symmetrical, and therefore easier to proofread.)
+Of course, we microtonalists often disagree, and you may prefer to see ups and downs used differently. But as the creator of the system, I feel I have the right to make the note columns as I see fit. So rather than editing what I've written, please consider other options. The first thing to try is discussing your opinions directly with me and see if one of us can change the other's mind. The discussion tab of the ups and downs page might be a good place for that. Another is to create your own xenwiki page about your preferred ups and downs style, and link to it from the ups and downs page. Or maybe add a paragraph to certain edo pages. The beauty of the xenwiki is that it allows room for each of us to advocate for different approaches.
+BTW, looking over the note columns, I see I haven't been totally consistent in choosing when to include enharmonic equivalents. I'll be updating those shortly.
+Anyway, looking forward to hearing from you! :) --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 00:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)