Talk:Small comma: Difference between revisions

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:::: Would it be too confusing if we link to the existing lemma (in changing columns)? Or should we add a "further reading" column which would help us to place links (like ''[[Garischismic temperaments|satin comma]]'') that are only loosely coupled with the comma itself? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 19:41, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

::::: A further-reading column for links sounds rather forced. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

:::::: Okay, then we'll just let it go. Maybe we or someone else will come up with a really good solution for it later. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 12:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

== Proposal to change a few comma names ==

* <s>Countriton → countertriton or cotriton</s>

: <s>"Countriton" sounds like a result of haplology. I, for one, strongly prefer full prefixes. Either countertriton or cotriton would work. </s>

* Moctdel → motel

: "Moctdel" is hard to pronounce. I kinda get that "del" part comes from the grendel temperament (→ Mirkwai clan #Grendel) but I don't see how it's related to moct (millioctave) by any means.

Ideas? [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 14:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Update: Nevermind "countriton". It seems it's formed by co + untriton. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:56, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

== A new way to name commas in color notation? ==

User Gud2228 recently added Yo-28, Gu-31 and Gu-59 to this page. These are generalizations of the Wa-N format for 3-limit commas. The format is obviously Yo-N = [x, 0, N> and Gu-N = [x, 0, -N>. It can be generalized to other primes, with e.g. Tho-10 meaning [-37 0 0 0 0 10> (Laquinbitho 2nd, about 5¢).

I have mixed feelings about this usage. One the one hand, it's great to see people experimenting and improvising with color notation. That's what happens with actual languages after all. And it is a logical extension of existing usage. But still I'd rather not elevate this usage to an official status. IMO it doesn't add enough utility to justify increasing the complexity of the notation.

So if Yo-28 isn't worth doing, why is a 3-limit name like Wa-29 OK? Because the alternative to Wa-29 is Quadsawa, which obscures the number 29. But Yo-28's alternative is Quadla-sepquadyo, in which "sepquad" clearly indicates the number 28.

So I suggest the name Yo-28 be moved to the first column, next to "oquatonic comma", and the 2nd column have the usual color name, Quadla-sepquadyo. Likewise for Gu-31 and Gu-59. -[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 00:46, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

== Color names for 3-limit commas ==

Color names are mostly a straightforward mapping of the numbers in the monzo to syllables, except that it obscures the 2-count and 3-count. You have to deduce those from the degree, the magnitude, etc. Mostly this works quite well. The degree lets you estimate the size in cents, which is usually more useful information than the number of threes in the ratio.

But it doesn't work well with 3-limit commas. The most important fact about such commas is the 3-count! That tells you which edo it implies, which immediately tells you what you get when you temper out the comma. That's why I devised the "wa format", such as Wa-41, or its short form, w-41.

But here and on the other two comma pages, the short forms have been changed from e.g. "w-41" to "s<sup>6</sup>w5". IMO this isn't a good idea.

One could argue that it's somewhat useful to know that this comma turns out to be a very small 5th. IMO that information belongs on the page dedicated to that comma, where there's room to delve into such details. It doesn't belong in the table of commas.

Also, I don't like seeing the short form removed. It's good to know. It's very useful for equations such as Ly-2 + w-17 = sy2.

--[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 05:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 49: / Line 49: @@
 :::: Would it be too confusing if we link to the existing lemma (in changing columns)? Or should we add a "further reading" column which would help us to place links (like ''[[Garischismic temperaments|satin comma]]'') that are only loosely coupled with the comma itself? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 19:41, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
+::::: A further-reading column for links sounds rather forced. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:16, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
+:::::: Okay, then we'll just let it go. Maybe we or someone else will come up with a really good solution for it later. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 12:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
+== Proposal to change a few comma names ==
+* <s>Countriton → countertriton or cotriton</s>
+: <s>"Countriton" sounds like a result of haplology. I, for one, strongly prefer full prefixes. Either countertriton or cotriton would work. </s>
+* Moctdel → motel
+: "Moctdel" is hard to pronounce. I kinda get that "del" part comes from the grendel temperament (→ Mirkwai clan #Grendel) but I don't see how it's related to moct (millioctave) by any means.
+Ideas? [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 14:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
+Update: Nevermind "countriton". It seems it's formed by co + untriton. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 09:56, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
+== A new way to name commas in color notation? ==
+User Gud2228 recently added Yo-28, Gu-31 and Gu-59 to this page. These are generalizations of the Wa-N format for 3-limit commas. The format is obviously Yo-N = [x, 0, N> and Gu-N = [x, 0, -N>. It can be generalized to other primes, with e.g. Tho-10 meaning [-37 0 0 0 0 10> (Laquinbitho 2nd, about 5¢).
+I have mixed feelings about this usage. One the one hand, it's great to see people experimenting and improvising with color notation. That's what happens with actual languages after all. And it is a logical extension of existing usage. But still I'd rather not elevate this usage to an official status. IMO it doesn't add enough utility to justify increasing the complexity of the notation.
+So if Yo-28 isn't worth doing, why is a 3-limit name like Wa-29 OK? Because the alternative to Wa-29 is Quadsawa, which obscures the number 29. But Yo-28's alternative is Quadla-sepquadyo, in which "sepquad" clearly indicates the number 28.
+So I suggest the name Yo-28 be moved to the first column, next to "oquatonic comma", and the 2nd column have the usual color name, Quadla-sepquadyo. Likewise for Gu-31 and Gu-59. -[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 00:46, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
+== Color names for 3-limit commas ==
+Color names are mostly a straightforward mapping of the numbers in the monzo to syllables, except that it obscures the 2-count and 3-count. You have to deduce those from the degree, the magnitude, etc. Mostly this works quite well. The degree lets you estimate the size in cents, which is usually more useful information than the number of threes in the ratio.
+But it doesn't work well with 3-limit commas. The most important fact about such commas is the 3-count! That tells you which edo it implies, which immediately tells you what you get when you temper out the comma. That's why I devised the "wa format", such as Wa-41, or its short form, w-41.
+But here and on the other two comma pages, the short forms have been changed from e.g. "w-41" to "s<sup>6</sup>w5". IMO this isn't a good idea.
+One could argue that it's somewhat useful to know that this comma turns out to be a very small 5th. IMO that information belongs on the page dedicated to that comma, where there's room to delve into such details. It doesn't belong in the table of commas.
+Also, I don't like seeing the short form removed. It's good to know. It's very useful for equations such as Ly-2 + w-17 = sy2.
+--[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 05:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)