User talk:Lhearne: Difference between revisions

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:::::::::::::::::::::: I chose the Alpharabian Harmonic Scale in part because of the immense difficulty I'm currently having in reconciling the interval math with the Pythagorean system. Truth be told, however, I am willing to go with a more even scale, but I'm just keeping things relatively simple at the moment, and I am familiar with the Harmonic scale from more classical-style music. I hope this sheds more light on why I'm going the way I'm going at the moment. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 19:48, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::::::: Ok fair enough. Is there a 9-note Harmonic scale from more classic-style music you're referring to? I am unfamiliar with this. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 03:04, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::::::::: It is not so much that this scale itself comes from more classical-style music so much as it demonstrates similar properties in regards to its intervals- e.g. large gaps between one or more steps of the heptatonic scale. The two thirds and the two sixths in the Alpharabian Harmonic Scale are simply steps that can act as such in the heptatonic scale. One can also think of the interchangeability between the two sixths and the interchangeability between the two thirds as being akin to melodic minor having different steps for the same scale degree. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 03:28, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

: In other news, I have called [[45/44]] 'O' after Ocean Stegasaurus Tardigrade's cake story associated with the comma, given that 'c' is already taken. Using this, and R, I have given 94edo well-ordered names:

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:: Now that I think about it, the Pentacircle comma (896/891) can also be given a pass for much the same reason as "Q", though in this case, I think I'd prefer a different letter from "L" just in case it turns out that we actually need "large/little" to refer to the Paramajor and Paraminor intervals due to the apotome and the parapotome not being the same size. With this in mind, we need a more creative way of capturing what the pentacircle comma is. Since "W" has been freed up, and since "whopper" and "weeny"- meaning "large" and "small" respectively- both start with "W", and since "W" can also stand for "weird" which is a good way of describing my sense of the way that septimal intervals interact with diatonic intervals, why not take advantage of this? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:56, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

::: I'm not sure I like "whopper"/"wheeny", "weird". They don't sound 'serious' enough for me. I also disagree that ambiguity on the generic diatonic interval class of an interval means we don't use it at all as a prefix to a (pythagorean) diatonic interval. If, for example, 7/4 can be both a type of seven and type of six, then we need to be able to notate it as both ideally. Moreover, 7/4 has been considered a type of seventh for hundreds of years and is rather well accepted as a subminor seventh. Do you intend to do away with super and sub as well? Yes, 11/8 is a type of fourth, and that means that 14/11 is a type of fourth, and that clashes with 14/11 being considered instead a type of third, but these sorts of ambiguities are unavoidable when we're trying to use a Pythagorean lattice to get to all of JI. Most people will tell us we shouldn't even bother trying, but I wish they were more encouraging, as an aside...

::: I've left behind M1 and m8 very quickly after suggesting it haha --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 02:57, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

:::: To be frank, even though "whopper" and "wheeny" don't feel all that serious, I kind of feel the same way about "bright/baby", but I'm still willing to work with these as needed. Perhaps we should dig through the thesaurus to come up with better letters and corresponding interval modifier names...

:::: On another note, now that you have explained things a bit more, I do agree that we need to be able to notate 7/4 as both a subminor seventh and as a sort of sixth, as that reflects the functional realities concerning that interval. I do not intend to do away with super and sub, though I do think we need to come up with a more consistent strategy for reflecting the functional realities. To that end, I propose that we restrict the arithmetic ambiguities to primes that are more readily characterized by equivalent functional ambiguities, such as the 7-prime. For instance, the pentacircle comma allows us to access the functionality of 7/4 as a third relative to 11/8, and thus, as a sixth, while the Archytas' Subchroma allows us access to 7/4 when it acts as a subminor seventh- yes, I'm calling 64/63 "Archytas' Subchroma" for the moment because it often does have a sort of chromatic function when not treated as a comma. I hope this idea makes more sense. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 00:03, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

::::: Ah, yes. I should fill you in. 'Bright' and 'baby' have been ditched, replaced with 'Hyper' and 'hypo'. 'Tall' and 'tiny' have been added for Tridecimal intervals after a helpful suggestion. For Oceanic intervals I'm going with 'Obtuse' and 'opaque' for now, although 'Over' and 'off' is still an option, and I'm considering after a suggestion to replace 'Up' with 'Über', so I have 'Über' and 'under', though we could make them both German and go with 'Über' and 'unter', which I kind of like actually. Yes I can follow that idea. I would argue 13 is also such a prime. I already have the same sort of ambiguities with 'Hyper' and 'hypo', wherein 13/10 is treated as an Hypermajor third, but 13/8 a type of minor sixth, and 5/4 a type of major third, and so 13/10 a type of diminished fourth. 13/10 sounds as something between a major third and a fourth and in some edos (eg. 27edo and 37edo), the diatonic major third is 13/10 (as well as 9/7 in those cases). Perhaps that's where to leave it, but I think these sorts of ambiguities will always occur, and I want an scheme that allows both possibilities in all cases. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 02:17, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

:::::: Good to know. While I'm aware that these weird ambiguities will always occur, I'm currently under the impression that these issues are not as bad in the realm of the 2.3.11 subgroup in part because the discrepancies tend to occur mainly with augmented and diminished intervals and in cases where intervals akin to the Pythagorean comma are involved- these intervals tending to function more as differences between enharmonics than anything. Is that a fair assessment? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 03:22, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

== Notation and Well-Ordered Naming Systems ==

Hey, I've been trying to come up with a notation system for 159edo, and since 159edo is one of the EDOs we need to work on, I'm curious as to what you think about this proposed notation system of mine...

[[File:Quarter-accidentals-narrow-rastmic-wide.png|300px]]

# top line: narrow

# middle line: rastmic (standard)

# bottom line: wide

The above image shows the new quartertone accidentals, while the image below shows the remainder of the new accidentals.

[[File:Possible 159edo Accidentals.png|150px]]

top row from left to right:

# rastma wide

# biyatisma wide

# syntonic wide

# syntonic + rastma wide

# syntonic + byatisma wide

# double syntonic wide

bottom row from left to right:

# rastma narrow

# biyatisma narrow

# syntonic narrow

# syntonic + rastma narrow

# syntonic + byatisma narrow

# double syntonic narrow

I hope the above accidentals make sense. I mean, I'm trying to make my approach to this whole thing as clean and straighforward as possible. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:25, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

: Hey, yeah definitely makes sense! I like the idea of keeping connection to the conventional quarter-tone accidentals, with the narrow and wide quarter tones, and then having a smaller arrow-like symbol for the rastma and a larger one for the syntonic I would agree is the best way to go. The accidentals actually make 159edo easier to grok. I like these for accidentals for 159edo, and maybe it's possible to generalise this system to other edos.

: I had my own ideas for accidentals with my interval-naming scheme: The accidentals associated with prefixes are built of the letter associated with the prefix (in lower case) and an arrow head pointing either up or down from the letter. In ASCII then, followed by latin characters that resemble the accidentals are (where available):

: 81/80: c^, cv; ĉ, ç

: 64/63: s^, sv; ŝ, ş

: 33/32: u^, uv; û, ų

: 1053/1024: t^, tv; ť, ț

: 416/405: b^, bv; ḃ, ḅ

: 896/891: l^, lv; ľ, ļ

: 45/44: o^, ov; ô, ǫ

: 49/48: q^, qv;

: 243/242: r^, rv; ŕ, ŗ

: This is so that accidentals are read directly as prefixes for interval names, and tied directly to JI alterations from Pythagorean.

: The actual accidentals don't look like this, with the arrow after the letter. The arrow is put at the top (^) or bottom (v) of the letter.

: Lower case is used because it looks better accidentals and also because otherwise it could be confusing for 'B' and 'C' since these are letter names. However it may be better to use 'k' for 'klassisch', instead of 'c' anyway, and something else instead of 'b'.

: It is not obvious how these accidentals may be combined into a single glyph, however ideally we wouldn't be combining accidentals anyway, though that means there would be lots of them for larger edos and it might be too many, though I didn't envisage the scheme working for large edos anyway, though it would be nice of course if that was possible. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 02:46, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

: Ok for now at least 13/10 is Hypermajor and 15/13 is hypominor, and 81/80 is 'klassisch' or 'komma-Wide'/'komma-narrow'.

: 81/80: k^, kv; ḱ, ķ

: 416/405: h^, hv; ĥ, ḫ --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 03:34, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

:: I'm glad you like this idea. For the record, the way these glyphs are combined is that the rastmic/syntonic arrow symbol is placed before the conventional/quartertone accidental in a horizontal arrangement which can be compared to how letters get together to form words. I hope this makes more sense. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 00:03, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

:: Oh, and yes, I do indeed believe that it is possible to generalize this notation system to a number of other EDOs, but the trick to this lies within the series of rastmic/syntonic accidentals. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 00:08, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

:: Oh! I was just looking, and it turns out that 416/405 and 1053/1024 are types of quartertone... Given this, and given how the 2.3.11 subgroup provides more of a clean structure for dealing with quartertones, I'm thinking we should instead use commas to derive intervals like this from 2.3.11 quartertones for good measure, especially judging from your observation that the 13-prime is about as bad as the 7-prime when it comes to functional ambiguity. Perhaps we should even give the 7-prime the same treatment, even though it should go without saying that 7/4 can still be considered a subminor seventh. Just something to think about. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:39, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

:: I'm curious as to how we should convey the modification of Augmented and Diminished intervals by 33/32. I also haven't heard from you in a while, and since you didn't respond to what I said last, I'm wondering what your thoughts have been on these matters. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 13:26, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

::: Hi Aura. I'm sorry I've been silent. I've been working on my other projects. I have many going on at once and sort of cycle through giving 3 or so more focus for a month or so, while others fall away. I'm not sure when I'll get back to this, but it hasn't fallen from my mind. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 15:29, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

:::: Ah, that makes sense. You never can tell what's going on on the other end of the line. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 16:11, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

I do have an update to share concerning the quartertone accidentals for this particular system that I shared with you. I redid some of the accidentals, and I've made a better resolution image.

[[File:Possible Quartertone Accidentals 2.png]]

I hope you don't mind. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 18:40, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

== SKULO Notation and Interval Names ==

Considering that SKULO Notation and Interval Names is the successor to SHEFKHED, I think there should be an article on it so we can look at it, just like there is for SHEFKHED. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 18:40, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

: Hey I'm sorry I missed this. Yeah I need to write up a page on SKULO for sure. On my to-do list! --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 09:05, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

== delete page ==

After seeing that you added the same scale once more, should [[((2/1, 5/4)-3, 16/15: 225/224)-9]] be deleted now? (BTW: Naming mistakes like this are normally fixed by moving a page) --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:43, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

: Ahh thanks I see what happened now. I hadn't realised the page was named wrong and thought I must have neglected to create it. Yes, I would like for [[((2/1, 5/4)-3, 16/15: 225/224)-9]] to be deleted if it's not too much effort. Thanks for watching over! --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 16:48, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

: Done. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:57, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

:: Thanks so much! And thank you for notifying me of how naming mistakes are normally fixed. I'll make sure to do that in the future --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 06:58, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

== Old "user page" ==

Hi Lhearne! I just stumbled upon the page [[Gareth.hearne]], which I suppose you created unintentionally back in 2018. Would you agree if I nominated it for deletion? (You can also do it yourself if you want, just add <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> in the page's body.) [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 23:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

: Hi! So to explain, my old user page was created fully intentionally. I worked in this community as Gareth Hearne for a decade before I changed my name to Lillian. Thank you for explaining how to delete the page. I imagine I will do so at some point, after I'm confident that my work is known under the name 'Lillian' and not still under the name 'Gareth'. Perhaps I'll do it soon. I'll think about it.

: Thanks --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 05:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

:: Just to be clear, I was specifically talking about the page that is not in the User: namespace. I consider [[Gareth.hearne]] and [[User:Gareth.hearne]] to be duplicate pages, but it would seem perfectly fine to me to keep one of these two along with your current user page.

:: Also, if you prefer to keep only your current user page, [[User:Gareth.hearne]] would likely be set up as a redirect page to your current user page. Maybe you knew that already, but I think that might help you decide what you want to do with your previous user page. It's all up to you, anyway, and you can do that whenever you want, so no hurry. ;) [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 06:42, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

::: oh haha, yeah will delete that. Thanks for the heads up! Sorry I missed that and this reply... --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 14:16, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

:::: Hi again! I just stumbled upon the page [[Gareth Hearne]], created by Xenwolf almost 6 years ago and never edited since. Should we move that to [[Lillian Hearne]]?

:::: On a related note, I'm working on a page about the [[Now&Xen]] podcast with, among other things, the list of guests in each episode. When you were invited on episodes 19 and 22, you were still going by Gareth and are credited as such on the podcast's website. Should I list you as Gareth, Lillian or both? I feel like writing Gareth makes more sense, since that's the name you used in the podcast episodes, and the links would automatically redirect to [[Lillian Hearne]] anyway (if we go forward with the move), but I'd like to know your view on this before proceeding. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:34, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

::::: Hi, thanks for checking. In light of the podcast reference, I think we can move the page to [[Lillian Hearne]]. I'll edit it after to update it to link to my current soundcloud. I'm still not sure whether I should be listed as Gareth or Lillian on the page [[Now&Xen]]. Since I'm not sure, you can go with Gareth for now, and I'll edit later if I decide I'd prefer to be listed there as Lillian, or I'll ask, if you'd prefer. Thanks. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 05:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

== Known languages ==

Hi again! I was looking at [[Xenharmonic_Wiki:What_languages_do_various_users_know?]] and found you in the list. Since that page was deprecated, you might want to add the appropriate user language categories to your user page instead. For example, if you're a native English speaker, add <nowiki>[[Category:User en-N]]</nowiki>. For more information, see [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Category:Users_by_language] or just ask me! [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 00:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

: Ok thanks, done! --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 05:30, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

== Linking pages ==

Hi Lhearne, there are a couple of pages you created that have no inbound links, for example, [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Marvel dipentatonic|Marvel dipentatonic]], [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Prodigy dipentatonic|Prodigy dipentatonic]], [[Special:WhatLinksHere/The Porcutone System|The Porcutone System]]. It would be nice if you could take a look when you get a chance! Thanks. Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 17:44, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

== 15edo subpage ==

Hi Lillian! I noticed that you have a custom version of the [[15edo]] page in your user space (at [[User:Lhearne/15edo]]) on which you worked a few years ago. Are there specific parts that you wanted to keep separate from the main page, and do you believe it should stay separate like that? I think it's harder to see the differences when they're all mixed in with the rest of the otherwise normal (and probably outdated now) page. There isn't any rush to change anything, but I thought I'd let you know in case we can make the pages both cleaner and more informative. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 163: / Line 163: @@
 :::::::::::::::::::::: I chose the Alpharabian Harmonic Scale in part because of the immense difficulty I'm currently having in reconciling the interval math with the Pythagorean system.  Truth be told, however, I am willing to go with a more even scale, but I'm just keeping things relatively simple at the moment, and I am familiar with the Harmonic scale from more classical-style music.  I hope this sheds more light on why I'm going the way I'm going at the moment. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 19:48, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
+::::::::::::::::::::::: Ok fair enough. Is there a 9-note Harmonic scale from more classic-style music you're referring to? I am unfamiliar with this. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 03:04, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
+:::::::::::::::::::::::: It is not so much that this scale itself comes from more classical-style music so much as it demonstrates similar properties in regards to its intervals- e.g. large gaps between one or more steps of the heptatonic scale.  The two thirds and the two sixths in the Alpharabian Harmonic Scale are simply steps that can act as such in the heptatonic scale.  One can also think of the interchangeability between the two sixths and the interchangeability between the two thirds as being akin to melodic minor having different steps for the same scale degree. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 03:28, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
 : In other news, I have called [[45/44]] 'O' after Ocean Stegasaurus Tardigrade's cake story associated with the comma, given that 'c' is already taken. Using this, and R, I have given 94edo well-ordered names:
@@ Line 172: / Line 176: @@
 :: Now that I think about it, the Pentacircle comma (896/891) can also be given a pass for much the same reason as "Q", though in this case, I think I'd prefer a different letter from "L" just in case it turns out that we actually need "large/little" to refer to the Paramajor and Paraminor intervals due to the apotome and the parapotome not being the same size.  With this in mind, we need a more creative way of capturing what the pentacircle comma is.  Since "W" has been freed up, and since "whopper" and "weeny"- meaning "large" and "small" respectively- both start with "W", and since "W" can also stand for "weird" which is a good way of describing my sense of the way that septimal intervals interact with diatonic intervals, why not take advantage of this? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:56, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
+::: I'm not sure I like "whopper"/"wheeny", "weird". They don't sound 'serious' enough for me. I also disagree that ambiguity on the generic diatonic interval class of an interval means we don't use it at all as a prefix to a (pythagorean) diatonic interval. If, for example, 7/4 can be both a type of seven and type of six, then we need to be able to notate it as both ideally. Moreover, 7/4 has been considered a type of seventh for hundreds of years and is rather well accepted as a subminor seventh. Do you intend to do away with super and sub as well? Yes, 11/8 is a type of fourth, and that means that 14/11 is a type of fourth, and that clashes with 14/11 being considered instead a type of third, but these sorts of ambiguities are unavoidable when we're trying to use a Pythagorean lattice to get to all of JI. Most people will tell us we shouldn't even bother trying, but I wish they were more encouraging, as an aside...
+::: I've left behind M1 and m8 very quickly after suggesting it haha --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 02:57, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
+:::: To be frank, even though "whopper" and "wheeny" don't feel all that serious, I kind of feel the same way about "bright/baby", but I'm still willing to work with these as needed.  Perhaps we should dig through the thesaurus to come up with better letters and corresponding interval modifier names...
+:::: On another note, now that you have explained things a bit more, I do agree that we need to be able to notate 7/4 as both a subminor seventh and as a sort of sixth, as that reflects the functional realities concerning that interval.  I do not intend to do away with super and sub, though I do think we need to come up with a more consistent strategy for reflecting the functional realities.  To that end, I propose that we restrict the arithmetic ambiguities to primes that are more readily characterized by equivalent functional ambiguities, such as the 7-prime.  For instance, the pentacircle comma allows us to access the functionality of 7/4 as a third relative to 11/8, and thus, as a sixth, while the Archytas' Subchroma allows us access to 7/4 when it acts as a subminor seventh- yes, I'm calling 64/63 "Archytas' Subchroma" for the moment because it often does have a sort of chromatic function when not treated as a comma.  I hope this idea makes more sense. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 00:03, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
+::::: Ah, yes. I should fill you in. 'Bright' and 'baby' have been ditched, replaced with 'Hyper' and 'hypo'. 'Tall' and 'tiny' have been added for Tridecimal intervals after a helpful suggestion. For Oceanic intervals I'm going with 'Obtuse' and 'opaque' for now, although 'Over' and 'off' is still an option, and I'm considering after a suggestion to replace 'Up' with 'Über', so I have 'Über' and 'under', though we could make them both German and go with 'Über' and 'unter', which I kind of like actually. Yes I can follow that idea. I would argue 13 is also such a prime. I already have the same sort of ambiguities with 'Hyper' and 'hypo', wherein 13/10 is treated as an Hypermajor third, but 13/8 a type of minor sixth, and 5/4 a type of major third, and so 13/10 a type of diminished fourth. 13/10 sounds as something between a major third and a fourth and in some edos (eg. 27edo and 37edo), the diatonic major third is 13/10 (as well as 9/7 in those cases). Perhaps that's where to leave it, but I think these sorts of ambiguities will always occur, and I want an scheme that allows both possibilities in all cases. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 02:17, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
+:::::: Good to know.  While I'm aware that these weird ambiguities will always occur, I'm currently under the impression that these issues are not as bad in the realm of the 2.3.11 subgroup in part because the discrepancies tend to occur mainly with augmented and diminished intervals and in cases where intervals akin to the Pythagorean comma are involved- these intervals tending to function more as differences between enharmonics than anything.  Is that a fair assessment? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 03:22, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
+== Notation and Well-Ordered Naming Systems ==
+Hey, I've been trying to come up with a notation system for 159edo, and since 159edo is one of the EDOs we need to work on, I'm curious as to what you think about this proposed notation system of mine...
+[[File:Quarter-accidentals-narrow-rastmic-wide.png|300px]]
+# top line: narrow
+# middle line: rastmic (standard)
+# bottom line: wide
+The above image shows the new quartertone accidentals, while the image below shows the remainder of the new accidentals.
+[[File:Possible 159edo Accidentals.png|150px]]
+top row from left to right:
+# rastma wide
+# biyatisma wide
+# syntonic wide
+# syntonic + rastma wide
+# syntonic + byatisma wide
+# double syntonic wide
+bottom row from left to right:
+# rastma narrow
+# biyatisma narrow
+# syntonic narrow
+# syntonic + rastma narrow
+# syntonic + byatisma narrow
+# double syntonic narrow
+I hope the above accidentals make sense.  I mean, I'm trying to make my approach to this whole thing as clean and straighforward as possible. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:25, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
+: Hey, yeah definitely makes sense! I like the idea of keeping connection to the conventional quarter-tone accidentals, with the narrow and wide quarter tones, and then having a smaller arrow-like symbol for the rastma and a larger one for the syntonic I would agree is the best way to go. The accidentals actually make 159edo easier to grok. I like these for accidentals for 159edo, and maybe it's possible to generalise this system to other edos.
+: I had my own ideas for accidentals with my interval-naming scheme: The accidentals associated with prefixes are built of the letter associated with the prefix (in lower case) and an arrow head pointing either up or down from the letter. In ASCII then, followed by latin characters that resemble the accidentals are (where available):
+: 81/80: c^, cv; ĉ, ç
+: 64/63: s^, sv; ŝ, ş
+: 33/32: u^, uv; û, ų
+: 1053/1024: t^, tv; ť, ț
+: 416/405: b^, bv; ḃ, ḅ
+: 896/891: l^, lv; ľ, ļ
+: 45/44: o^, ov; ô, ǫ
+: 49/48: q^, qv;
+: 243/242: r^, rv; ŕ, ŗ
+: This is so that accidentals are read directly as prefixes for interval names, and tied directly to JI alterations from Pythagorean.
+: The actual accidentals don't look like this, with the arrow after the letter. The arrow is put at the top (^) or bottom (v) of the letter.
+: Lower case is used because it looks better accidentals and also because otherwise it could be confusing for 'B' and 'C' since these are letter names. However it may be better to use 'k' for 'klassisch', instead of 'c' anyway, and something else instead of 'b'.
+: It is not obvious how these accidentals may be combined into a single glyph, however ideally we wouldn't be combining accidentals anyway, though that means there would be lots of them for larger edos and it might be too many, though I didn't envisage the scheme working for large edos anyway, though it would be nice of course if that was possible. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 02:46, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
+: Ok for now at least 13/10 is Hypermajor and 15/13 is hypominor, and 81/80 is 'klassisch' or 'komma-Wide'/'komma-narrow'.
+: 81/80: k^, kv; ḱ, ķ
+: 416/405: h^, hv; ĥ, ḫ --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 03:34, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
+:: I'm glad you like this idea.  For the record, the way these glyphs are combined is that the rastmic/syntonic arrow symbol is placed before the conventional/quartertone accidental in a horizontal arrangement which can be compared to how letters get together to form words.  I hope this makes more sense. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 00:03, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
+:: Oh, and yes, I do indeed believe that it is possible to generalize this notation system to a number of other EDOs, but the trick to this lies within the series of rastmic/syntonic accidentals. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 00:08, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
+:: Oh!  I was just looking, and it turns out that 416/405 and 1053/1024 are types of quartertone...  Given this, and given how the 2.3.11 subgroup provides more of a clean structure for dealing with quartertones, I'm thinking we should instead use commas to derive intervals like this from 2.3.11 quartertones for good measure, especially judging from your observation that the 13-prime is about as bad as the 7-prime when it comes to functional ambiguity. Perhaps we should even give the 7-prime the same treatment, even though it should go without saying that 7/4 can still be considered a subminor seventh.  Just something to think about. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:39, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
+:: I'm curious as to how we should convey the modification of Augmented and Diminished intervals by 33/32.  I also haven't heard from you in a while, and since you didn't respond to what I said last, I'm wondering what your thoughts have been on these matters. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 13:26, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
+::: Hi Aura. I'm sorry I've been silent. I've been working on my other projects. I have many going on at once and sort of cycle through giving 3 or so more focus for a month or so, while others fall away. I'm not sure when I'll get back to this, but it hasn't fallen from my mind. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 15:29, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
+:::: Ah, that makes sense.  You never can tell what's going on on the other end of the line. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 16:11, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
+I do have an update to share concerning the quartertone accidentals for this particular system that I shared with you.  I redid some of the accidentals, and I've made a better resolution image.
+[[File:Possible Quartertone Accidentals 2.png]]
+I hope you don't mind. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 18:40, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
+== SKULO Notation and Interval Names ==
+Considering that SKULO Notation and Interval Names is the successor to SHEFKHED, I think there should be an article on it so we can look at it, just like there is for SHEFKHED. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 18:40, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
+: Hey I'm sorry I missed this. Yeah I need to write up a page on SKULO for sure. On my to-do list! --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 09:05, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
+== delete page ==
+After seeing that you added the same scale once more, should [[((2/1, 5/4)-3, 16/15: 225/224)-9]] be deleted now? (BTW: Naming mistakes like this are normally fixed by moving a page) --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:43, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
+: Ahh thanks I see what happened now. I hadn't realised the page was named wrong and thought I must have neglected to create it. Yes, I would like for [[((2/1, 5/4)-3, 16/15: 225/224)-9]] to be deleted if it's not too much effort. Thanks for watching over! --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 16:48, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
+: Done. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:57, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
+:: Thanks so much! And thank you for notifying me of how naming mistakes are normally fixed. I'll make sure to do that in the future --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 06:58, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
+== Old "user page" ==
+Hi Lhearne! I just stumbled upon the page [[Gareth.hearne]], which I suppose you created unintentionally back in 2018. Would you agree if I nominated it for deletion? (You can also do it yourself if you want, just add <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> in the page's body.) [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 23:01, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
+: Hi! So to explain, my old user page was created fully intentionally. I worked in this community as Gareth Hearne for a decade before I changed my name to Lillian. Thank you for explaining how to delete the page. I imagine I will do so at some point, after I'm confident that my work is known under the name 'Lillian' and not still under the name 'Gareth'. Perhaps I'll do it soon. I'll think about it.
+: Thanks --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 05:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
+:: Just to be clear, I was specifically talking about the page that is not in the User: namespace. I consider [[Gareth.hearne]] and [[User:Gareth.hearne]] to be duplicate pages, but it would seem perfectly fine to me to keep one of these two along with your current user page.
+:: Also, if you prefer to keep only your current user page, [[User:Gareth.hearne]] would likely be set up as a redirect page to your current user page. Maybe you knew that already, but I think that might help you decide what you want to do with your previous user page. It's all up to you, anyway, and you can do that whenever you want, so no hurry. ;) [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 06:42, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
+::: oh haha, yeah will delete that. Thanks for the heads up! Sorry I missed that and this reply... --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 14:16, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
+:::: Hi again! I just stumbled upon the page [[Gareth Hearne]], created by Xenwolf almost 6 years ago and never edited since. Should we move that to [[Lillian Hearne]]?
+:::: On a related note, I'm working on a page about the [[Now&Xen]] podcast with, among other things, the list of guests in each episode. When you were invited on episodes 19 and 22, you were still going by Gareth and are credited as such on the podcast's website. Should I list you as Gareth, Lillian or both? I feel like writing Gareth makes more sense, since that's the name you used in the podcast episodes, and the links would automatically redirect to [[Lillian Hearne]] anyway (if we go forward with the move), but I'd like to know your view on this before proceeding. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:34, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
+::::: Hi, thanks for checking. In light of the podcast reference, I think we can move the page to [[Lillian Hearne]]. I'll edit it after to update it to link to my current soundcloud. I'm still not sure whether I should be listed as Gareth or Lillian on the page [[Now&Xen]]. Since I'm not sure, you can go with Gareth for now, and I'll edit later if I decide I'd prefer to be listed there as Lillian, or I'll ask, if you'd prefer. Thanks. --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 05:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
+== Known languages ==
+Hi again! I was looking at [[Xenharmonic_Wiki:What_languages_do_various_users_know?]] and found you in the list. Since that page was deprecated, you might want to add the appropriate user language categories to your user page instead. For example, if you're a native English speaker, add <nowiki>[[Category:User en-N]]</nowiki>. For more information, see [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Category:Users_by_language] or just ask me! [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 00:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
+: Ok thanks, done! --[[User:Lhearne|Lhearne]] ([[User talk:Lhearne|talk]]) 05:30, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
+== Linking pages ==
+Hi Lhearne, there are a couple of pages you created that have no inbound links, for example, [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Marvel dipentatonic|Marvel dipentatonic]], [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Prodigy dipentatonic|Prodigy dipentatonic]], [[Special:WhatLinksHere/The Porcutone System|The Porcutone System]]. It would be nice if you could take a look when you get a chance! Thanks. Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 17:44, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
+== 15edo subpage ==
+Hi Lillian! I noticed that you have a custom version of the [[15edo]] page in your user space (at [[User:Lhearne/15edo]]) on which you worked a few years ago. Are there specific parts that you wanted to keep separate from the main page, and do you believe it should stay separate like that? I think it's harder to see the differences when they're all mixed in with the rest of the otherwise normal (and probably outdated now) page. There isn't any rush to change anything, but I thought I'd let you know in case we can make the pages both cleaner and more informative. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)