Talk:Patent val: Difference between revisions

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The "simple map" sets octaves pure, and then for each other prime harmonic individually, chooses the nearest mapping (the one with least error). That's clearly simple, and it's good, but it's not necessarily best. On the other hand, the best map is not strictly defined yet, but it would have a more elaborate definition, involving a consideration of errors in the ratios ''between'' primes, not only in the primes themselves. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 23:27, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

: I think your first two points somewhat neutralize each other. If people are unfamiliar with the word, no connotation could arise. Otherwise, if people feel positive with the word, they already know what it means.

: To me, ''patent'' in the sense of ''obvious'' is rather literary, which is suitable for carrying complex or subtle meanings, and effectively stay clear of any connotations. ''Simple map'' is a combo of two everyday words and gives me the impression that the concept isn't rigorously defined. If I must choose such a term, it'd be Kite's ''nearest edomapping''. ''Nearest'' is more informative than ''simple'' at least.

: I also oppose using ''naive'' as a substitute. That word should be reserved for direct approximation. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:01, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

== proposal to rename "generalize patent val" to "uniform map" ==

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Any uniform map whose multiplier is an integer — or "integer uniform map" — is always the patent val (or simple map, per my other proposal above) for the corresponding EDO. And every simple map is also an integer uniform map. These are just two different helpful ways of thinking about the same structure; in contexts pertaining to tuning accuracy, "simple map" works great, and in contexts pertaining to other uniform maps, "integer uniform map" works great. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 23:27, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

: The definition may use some readability improvements but ultimately it's just wordplays. Your alternative definition still involves non-integer edos. Or what else do you think the multiplier is? Imagine a [http://micro.soonlabel.com/Scott_Thompson/edjiruler.html ruler with a varying scale put on the pitch continuum]. 17 means that the octave is at the 17th point, implying there are 17 unit intervals between the starting point and the octave, which means 17edo. And therefore 17.1 means 17.1edo. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:01, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

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 The "simple map" sets octaves pure, and then for each other prime harmonic individually, chooses the nearest mapping (the one with least error). That's clearly simple, and it's good, but it's not necessarily best. On the other hand, the best map is not strictly defined yet, but it would have a more elaborate definition, involving a consideration of errors in the ratios ''between'' primes, not only in the primes themselves. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 23:27, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
+: I think your first two points somewhat neutralize each other. If people are unfamiliar with the word, no connotation could arise. Otherwise, if people feel positive with the word, they already know what it means.
+: To me, ''patent'' in the sense of ''obvious'' is rather literary, which is suitable for carrying complex or subtle meanings, and effectively stay clear of any connotations. ''Simple map'' is a combo of two everyday words and gives me the impression that the concept isn't rigorously defined. If I must choose such a term, it'd be Kite's ''nearest edomapping''. ''Nearest'' is more informative than ''simple'' at least.
+: I also oppose using ''naive'' as a substitute. That word should be reserved for direct approximation. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:01, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 == proposal to rename "generalize patent val" to "uniform map" ==
@@ Line 27: / Line 33: @@
 Any uniform map whose multiplier is an integer — or "integer uniform map" — is always the patent val (or simple map, per my other proposal above) for the corresponding EDO. And every simple map is also an integer uniform map. These are just two different helpful ways of thinking about the same structure; in contexts pertaining to tuning accuracy, "simple map" works great, and in contexts pertaining to other uniform maps, "integer uniform map" works great. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 23:27, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
+: The definition may use some readability improvements but ultimately it's just wordplays. Your alternative definition still involves non-integer edos. Or what else do you think the multiplier is? Imagine a [http://micro.soonlabel.com/Scott_Thompson/edjiruler.html ruler with a varying scale put on the pitch continuum]. 17 means that the octave is at the 17th point, implying there are 17 unit intervals between the starting point and the octave, which means 17edo. And therefore 17.1 means 17.1edo. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:01, 26 September 2021 (UTC)