User talk:Godtone: Difference between revisions

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:: It sounds like you confuse "connectivity" with "concordance"- the latter of which is discussed on the [[harmonic entropy]] article, "connectivity" and "concordance" are both types of consonance, but they are different in that "connectivity" only exists between the fundamental and its partials- that is, overtones and undertones as well as their octave-reduced counterparts. Oh, and yes, you can actually get away with something like 27/16 or even 32/19 when it comes to connectivity. Only ratios with numerators and or denominators that are pure powers of two (such as 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc.) count as demonstrating "connectivity", so ratios like 4/3 or 16/15 actually count when it comes to connectivity whereas 15/14 doesn't. I'll be honest, 16/15 doesn't really sound all that complex to me- in fact it actually sounds pretty simple, and the fact that a power of two is in the numerator (resulting in a shared harmonic) actually helps with orientation- not to mention that its inverse is 15/8, a very pleasing major seventh that is easily bridged by the likes of ratios like 5/4 and 3/2. Meanwhile, 15/14 has to be placed somewhere else in the melody and harmony in order to function properly as 15/14 is less than ideal as the distance between your Lead and your Tonic precisely because of the missing fundamental effect- yes, I've checked, and I can actually hear the difference between them in terms of the missing fundamental effect. Did I mention that you can omit 7/4 from the overtone scale between the 8th and 16th harmonics and still end up with a scale demonstrating [[Rothenberg propriety]], whereas you can't do that if you omit 15/8? Yes, I work heavily with complex harmony, and so, the melody should be able to go well with the harmony without being mistuned- key changes, or even a series of rapid-fire key changes, are another story, as in those cases, the harmony is deliberately mistuned for the sake of transitions and a sense of instability. It is true that there as such a thing as an EDO that is too big, however, the reason I'm still a fan of something like 159edo is because in JI, you frequently have to deal with commas that are less than 3.5 cents- which are unnoticeable even when two notes differing by that amount are played together- and compared to all those different notes in JI differing by commas that size, something like 159edo brings a great deal of simplification. As to a verbose response? That's par for the course at times as far as I'm concerned. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 16:13, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

:: I guess at the end of the day, my point is that harmony has a way of exerting some measure of control over the tuning of the notes in the melody, and thus the intervals that are used as a result. If your preference is different, well, that's the way it is, but nevertheless, more precise tunings do matter, and although there appears to be some degree of tolerance for mistuning, such as in how 27/16 and 32/19 are virtually indistinguishable, I'd still prefer to take some finer distinctions more seriously. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 19:52, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

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	:: It sounds like you confuse "connectivity" with "concordance"- the latter of which is discussed on the [[harmonic entropy]] article, "connectivity" and "concordance" are both types of consonance, but they are different in that "connectivity" only exists between the fundamental and its partials- that is, overtones and undertones as well as their octave-reduced counterparts. Oh, and yes, you can actually get away with something like 27/16 or even 32/19 when it comes to connectivity. Only ratios with numerators and or denominators that are pure powers of two (such as 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc.) count as demonstrating "connectivity", so ratios like 4/3 or 16/15 actually count when it comes to connectivity whereas 15/14 doesn't. I'll be honest, 16/15 doesn't really sound all that complex to me- in fact it actually sounds pretty simple, and the fact that a power of two is in the numerator (resulting in a shared harmonic) actually helps with orientation- not to mention that its inverse is 15/8, a very pleasing major seventh that is easily bridged by the likes of ratios like 5/4 and 3/2. Meanwhile, 15/14 has to be placed somewhere else in the melody and harmony in order to function properly as 15/14 is less than ideal as the distance between your Lead and your Tonic precisely because of the missing fundamental effect- yes, I've checked, and I can actually hear the difference between them in terms of the missing fundamental effect. Did I mention that you can omit 7/4 from the overtone scale between the 8th and 16th harmonics and still end up with a scale demonstrating [[Rothenberg propriety]], whereas you can't do that if you omit 15/8? Yes, I work heavily with complex harmony, and so, the melody should be able to go well with the harmony without being mistuned- key changes, or even a series of rapid-fire key changes, are another story, as in those cases, the harmony is deliberately mistuned for the sake of transitions and a sense of instability. It is true that there as such a thing as an EDO that is too big, however, the reason I'm still a fan of something like 159edo is because in JI, you frequently have to deal with commas that are less than 3.5 cents- which are unnoticeable even when two notes differing by that amount are played together- and compared to all those different notes in JI differing by commas that size, something like 159edo brings a great deal of simplification. As to a verbose response? That's par for the course at times as far as I'm concerned. --[[User:Aura\|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura\|talk]]) 16:13, 18 December 2020 (UTC)		:: It sounds like you confuse "connectivity" with "concordance"- the latter of which is discussed on the [[harmonic entropy]] article, "connectivity" and "concordance" are both types of consonance, but they are different in that "connectivity" only exists between the fundamental and its partials- that is, overtones and undertones as well as their octave-reduced counterparts. Oh, and yes, you can actually get away with something like 27/16 or even 32/19 when it comes to connectivity. Only ratios with numerators and or denominators that are pure powers of two (such as 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc.) count as demonstrating "connectivity", so ratios like 4/3 or 16/15 actually count when it comes to connectivity whereas 15/14 doesn't. I'll be honest, 16/15 doesn't really sound all that complex to me- in fact it actually sounds pretty simple, and the fact that a power of two is in the numerator (resulting in a shared harmonic) actually helps with orientation- not to mention that its inverse is 15/8, a very pleasing major seventh that is easily bridged by the likes of ratios like 5/4 and 3/2. Meanwhile, 15/14 has to be placed somewhere else in the melody and harmony in order to function properly as 15/14 is less than ideal as the distance between your Lead and your Tonic precisely because of the missing fundamental effect- yes, I've checked, and I can actually hear the difference between them in terms of the missing fundamental effect. Did I mention that you can omit 7/4 from the overtone scale between the 8th and 16th harmonics and still end up with a scale demonstrating [[Rothenberg propriety]], whereas you can't do that if you omit 15/8? Yes, I work heavily with complex harmony, and so, the melody should be able to go well with the harmony without being mistuned- key changes, or even a series of rapid-fire key changes, are another story, as in those cases, the harmony is deliberately mistuned for the sake of transitions and a sense of instability. It is true that there as such a thing as an EDO that is too big, however, the reason I'm still a fan of something like 159edo is because in JI, you frequently have to deal with commas that are less than 3.5 cents- which are unnoticeable even when two notes differing by that amount are played together- and compared to all those different notes in JI differing by commas that size, something like 159edo brings a great deal of simplification. As to a verbose response? That's par for the course at times as far as I'm concerned. --[[User:Aura\|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura\|talk]]) 16:13, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

			:: I guess at the end of the day, my point is that harmony has a way of exerting some measure of control over the tuning of the notes in the melody, and thus the intervals that are used as a result. If your preference is different, well, that's the way it is, but nevertheless, more precise tunings do matter, and although there appears to be some degree of tolerance for mistuning, such as in how 27/16 and 32/19 are virtually indistinguishable, I'd still prefer to take some finer distinctions more seriously. --[[User:Aura\|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura\|talk]]) 19:52, 18 December 2020 (UTC)