Talk:KISS notation: Difference between revisions

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::::::: P.S. Is this community quite in the C party? I actually see a lot of friends of D party here. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 11:11, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

:::::::: But neither Eb nor E are the same as D, right? From an objective standpoint, I don't see why any of this ought to matter. If D is significant because of it's position relative to A, doesn't that make A more significant? The heptatonic scale starts and ends on the octave, according to classical instruction, so I don't follow the logic presented that G is significant as some sort of marker, moreso than any other named note. G is the minor seventh in the A heptatonic scale, so it's already moving preference away from the major scale and toward the dominant scale, which isn't any less bias, it's just different. If you used similar logic to state that A should be the standard because it is the first letter of the alphabet, I'm not sure I'd feel that was a good enough reason on its own to change the current standard.

:::::::: I don't think there has ever been a poll here, specifically, but there was a thread over in the XA on Facebook about A4 vs middle C as a standard pitch. The only reason anyone seems to think it matters is for the sake of clear communication. The impression I got over there was that middle C was more acceptable, and the reasons cited were because of MIDI and because it was the impression of those who adopted it that it was more commonly adopted by the community. The orchestral standard in the region of the world that conforms to ISO standards is A4=440 Hz. There are tons of very vocal groups challenging that standard for whatever reason, most infamously the A4=432 Hz group. For that reason alone, I think it makes life so much easier to define a reference pitch as A4=xxx Hz and move on. Trying to shift things to a middle C standard is too closely tied to piano, is too different from the adopted standardization for apparently arbitrary reasons, and also adds other arbitrary complications in the most general sense.

:::::::: For example, if you start your scale with A, A will be in your scale. If you start with C, C will be in your scale, but why start with the third letter instead of the first? I guess if you chose to argue that all letters are equal and, therefore, defining A as the first letter is biased against other letters, then that could be a valid point, except for the fact that the very idea of defining a reference pitch tied to a specifically letter-named note shows necessary bias for that named letter anyway. Since I think that's all silly anyway, and we need to establish the standard solely for the sake of communicating clearly with other musicians, there is no need to throw out the existing and accepted convention unless there is a valid reason to do so. As yet, I have not heard a reason that I view as logically valid. D is halfway between A and G, okay, but if you are basing your argument that D is significant because of it's position relative to A, then that just reinforces the validity of using A. Choosing D because it's close to Eb or E, which is significant for whichever reason just suggests instead to use Eb or E. Choosing middle C because of its significance on the piano or with MIDI would probably mean a lot to me if I were primarily a piano player or was deeply involved with MIDI in some fundamental way. But for most musicians, I see no reason why that would catch on.

:::::::: Have you ever been in a leadership role with a band or orchestra, and if so, did they use anything other than the ISO 16 or ASA reference pitch standard? --[[User:Bozu|Bozu]] ([[User talk:Bozu|talk]]) 13:01, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

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 ::::::: P.S. Is this community quite in the C party? I actually see a lot of friends of D party here. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 11:11, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
+:::::::: But neither Eb nor E are the same as D, right?  From an objective standpoint, I don't see why any of this ought to matter.  If D is significant because of it's position relative to A, doesn't that make A more significant?  The heptatonic scale starts and ends on the octave, according to classical instruction, so I don't follow the logic presented that G is significant as some sort of marker, moreso than any other named note.  G is the minor seventh in the A heptatonic scale, so it's already moving preference away from the major scale and toward the dominant scale, which isn't any less bias, it's just different.  If you used similar logic to state that A should be the standard because it is the first letter of the alphabet, I'm not sure I'd feel that was a good enough reason on its own to change the current standard.
+:::::::: I don't think there has ever been a poll here, specifically, but there was a thread over in the XA on Facebook about A4 vs middle C as a standard pitch.  The only reason anyone seems to think it matters is for the sake of clear communication.  The impression I got over there was that middle C was more acceptable, and the reasons cited were because of MIDI and because it was the impression of those who adopted it that it was more commonly adopted by the community.  The orchestral standard in the region of the world that conforms to ISO standards is A4=440 Hz.  There are tons of very vocal groups challenging that standard for whatever reason, most infamously the A4=432 Hz group.  For that reason alone, I think it makes life so much easier to define a reference pitch as A4=xxx Hz and move on.  Trying to shift things to a middle C standard is too closely tied to piano, is too different from the adopted standardization for apparently arbitrary reasons, and also adds other arbitrary complications in the most general sense.
+:::::::: For example, if you start your scale with A, A will be in your scale.  If you start with C, C will be in your scale, but why start with the third letter instead of the first?  I guess if you chose to argue that all letters are equal and, therefore, defining A as the first letter is biased against other letters, then that could be a valid point, except for the fact that the very idea of defining a reference pitch tied to a specifically letter-named note shows necessary bias for that named letter anyway.  Since I think that's all silly anyway, and we need to establish the standard solely for the sake of communicating clearly with other musicians, there is no need to throw out the existing and accepted convention unless there is a valid reason to do so.  As yet, I have not heard a reason that I view as logically valid.  D is halfway between A and G, okay, but if you are basing your argument that D is significant because of it's position relative to A, then that just reinforces the validity of using A.  Choosing D because it's close to Eb or E, which is significant for whichever reason just suggests instead to use Eb or E.  Choosing middle C because of its significance on the piano or with MIDI would probably mean a lot to me if I were primarily a piano player or was deeply involved with MIDI in some fundamental way.  But for most musicians, I see no reason why that would catch on.
+:::::::: Have you ever been in a leadership role with a band or orchestra, and if so, did they use anything other than the ISO 16 or ASA reference pitch standard?  --[[User:Bozu|Bozu]] ([[User talk:Bozu|talk]]) 13:01, 5 June 2020 (UTC)