Marvel: Difference between revisions

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== Tunings ==

In the 7-limit, the optimal way such as that taken by [[TE]] and derivatives to close out the comma 225/224 is to tune primes 3 and 5 flat, and 2 and 7 sharp. If we tune the octave pure, it leaves prime 7 the only variable to be sharp. This indicates that the supermajor second [[~]][[8/7]] should be flat (towards [[~]][[256/225]]), the subminor third [[~]][[7/6]] be sharp (towards [[~]][[75/64]]), the supermajor third [[~]][[9/7]] be flat (towards [[~]][[32/25]]) and the tritone [[~]][[7/5]] be sharp (towards [[~]][[45/32]]), such that every [[7-limit]] [[9-odd-limit]] interval is tuned between itself and the [[5-limit]] interpretation it is separated from by [[225/224]]. If we take these as hard constraints, then [[53edo]] and [[84edo]] are the smallest edo tunings to satify them. Even if you allow overtempering, the only smaller edo to satisfy all of these constraints is [[12edo]], which is a trivial tuning of it (meaning it is very high-damage owing to conflating many intervals so that the lattice is oversimplified). Interestingly, [[72edo]] fails some of these constraints, whereas 53edo though satisfying these constraints is obviously undertempered, tuning the intervals closer to the more complex [[5-limit]] interpretations despite that the very point of marvel is to use these intervals for 7-limit consonances. [[84edo]], another superset of 12edo, is an interesting edo to look at.

The marvel extension [[hecate]] has the no-17's [[19-limit]] as its subgroup, and tridecimal marvel, the extension chosen by [[Gene Ward Smith]], is in the 13-limit. They merge in the rank-2 temperament [[catakleismic]], which can be conceptualized as accepting both rank-3 marvel structures simultaneously. One such tuning is excellently given by [[125edo]]. If we are looking for a small edo tuning instead, [[53edo]] and [[72edo]] are also reasonable edo tunings for the full no-17's 19-limit catakleismic, though in 53edo the 11 and 19 are a little off and in 72edo the 13 and 19 are a little off instead; 72edo is positioned better as a full [[17-limit]] marvel system while 53edo is positioned better as a (potentially no-11's) [[13-limit]] marvel system. If we focus on the 11-limit of undecimal marvel (discarding the mapping of 13), [[31edo]] and [[41edo]] are the smallest to clearly succeed, though many accept 41edo's mapping of [[~]][[13/8]] to the neutral sixth and some accept that mapping for 31edo as contextually usable too.

[[53edo]] and [[84edo]] are the smallest [[edo]]s to tune the supermajor second [[~]][[8/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[256/225]]), the subminor third [[~]][[7/6]] sharp (towards [[~]][[75/64]]), the supermajor third [[~]][[9/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[32/25]]) and the tritone [[~]][[7/5]] sharp (towards [[~]][[45/32]]), such that every [[7-limit]] [[9-odd-limit]] interval is tuned between itself and the [[5-limit]] interpretation it is separated from by [[225/224]], though even if you allow overtempering, the only smaller edo to satisfy all of these constraints is [[12edo]], which is a trivial tuning of it (meaning it is very high-damage owing to conflating many intervals so that the lattice is oversimplified). [[TE]], [[CTE]], [[CEE]] and [[CWE]] as well as the idea of tempering between pairs of 5- and 7-limit intervals separated by 225/224 all implicate these tuning tendencies of these 7-limit [[LCJI]] intervals for optimized 7-limit marvel tunings. Interestingly, [[72edo]] fails some of these constraints, whereas 53edo though satisfying these constraints is obviously undertempered, tuning the intervals closer to the more complex [[5-limit]] interpretations despite that the very point of marvel is to use these intervals for 7-limit consonances. [[84edo]], another superset of [[12edo]], is an interesting edo to look at.

=== Tuning spectrum ===

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 == Tunings ==
+In the 7-limit, the optimal way such as that taken by [[TE]] and derivatives to close out the comma 225/224 is to tune primes 3 and 5 flat, and 2 and 7 sharp. If we tune the octave pure, it leaves prime 7 the only variable to be sharp. This indicates that the supermajor second [[~]][[8/7]] should be flat (towards [[~]][[256/225]]), the subminor third [[~]][[7/6]] be sharp (towards [[~]][[75/64]]), the supermajor third [[~]][[9/7]] be flat (towards [[~]][[32/25]]) and the tritone [[~]][[7/5]] be sharp (towards [[~]][[45/32]]), such that every [[7-limit]] [[9-odd-limit]] interval is tuned between itself and the [[5-limit]] interpretation it is separated from by [[225/224]]. If we take these as hard constraints, then [[53edo]] and [[84edo]] are the smallest edo tunings to satify them. Even if you allow overtempering, the only smaller edo to satisfy all of these constraints is [[12edo]], which is a trivial tuning of it (meaning it is very high-damage owing to conflating many intervals so that the lattice is oversimplified). Interestingly, [[72edo]] fails some of these constraints, whereas 53edo though satisfying these constraints is obviously undertempered, tuning the intervals closer to the more complex [[5-limit]] interpretations despite that the very point of marvel is to use these intervals for 7-limit consonances. [[84edo]], another superset of 12edo, is an interesting edo to look at.
 The marvel extension [[hecate]] has the no-17's [[19-limit]] as its subgroup, and tridecimal marvel, the extension chosen by [[Gene Ward Smith]], is in the 13-limit. They merge in the rank-2 temperament [[catakleismic]], which can be conceptualized as accepting both rank-3 marvel structures simultaneously. One such tuning is excellently given by [[125edo]]. If we are looking for a small edo tuning instead, [[53edo]] and [[72edo]] are also reasonable edo tunings for the full no-17's 19-limit catakleismic, though in 53edo the 11 and 19 are a little off and in 72edo the 13 and 19 are a little off instead; 72edo is positioned better as a full [[17-limit]] marvel system while 53edo is positioned better as a (potentially no-11's) [[13-limit]] marvel system. If we focus on the 11-limit of undecimal marvel (discarding the mapping of 13), [[31edo]] and [[41edo]] are the smallest to clearly succeed, though many accept 41edo's mapping of [[~]][[13/8]] to the neutral sixth and some accept that mapping for 31edo as contextually usable too.
-[[53edo]] and [[84edo]] are the smallest [[edo]]s to tune the supermajor second [[~]][[8/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[256/225]]), the subminor third [[~]][[7/6]] sharp (towards [[~]][[75/64]]), the supermajor third [[~]][[9/7]] flat (towards [[~]][[32/25]]) and the tritone [[~]][[7/5]] sharp (towards [[~]][[45/32]]), such that every [[7-limit]] [[9-odd-limit]] interval is tuned between itself and the [[5-limit]] interpretation it is separated from by [[225/224]], though even if you allow overtempering, the only smaller edo to satisfy all of these constraints is [[12edo]], which is a trivial tuning of it (meaning it is very high-damage owing to conflating many intervals so that the lattice is oversimplified). [[TE]], [[CTE]], [[CEE]] and [[CWE]] as well as the idea of tempering between pairs of 5- and 7-limit intervals separated by 225/224 all implicate these tuning tendencies of these 7-limit [[LCJI]] intervals for optimized 7-limit marvel tunings. Interestingly, [[72edo]] fails some of these constraints, whereas 53edo though satisfying these constraints is obviously undertempered, tuning the intervals closer to the more complex [[5-limit]] interpretations despite that the very point of marvel is to use these intervals for 7-limit consonances. [[84edo]], another superset of [[12edo]], is an interesting edo to look at.
 === Tuning spectrum ===