Würschmidt comma: Difference between revisions

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Correct a few occurrences of "temper out" written as "temper". Misc. wording improvements.
I feel like none of these tuning discussions belong to this page. Assimilated to wuerschmidt family.
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* equivalently, between one diaschisma and the [[kleisma]], ([[2048/2025]])/([[15625/15552]]); tempering out both thus also corresponds to [[34edo]].  
* equivalently, between one diaschisma and the [[kleisma]], ([[2048/2025]])/([[15625/15552]]); tempering out both thus also corresponds to [[34edo]].  
* finally, between two dieses and the just chromatic semitone, ([[128/125]])<sup>2</sup>/([[25/24]]); tempering out both leads to the trivial tuning [[3edo]].  
* finally, between two dieses and the just chromatic semitone, ([[128/125]])<sup>2</sup>/([[25/24]]); tempering out both leads to the trivial tuning [[3edo]].  
The last expression means tempering it out in any nontrivial tuning (that is, not 3edo), there is an exact neutral third between 5/4 and 6/5, which usually represents ~[[11/9]] (or more accurately [[49/40]], tempering out [[2401/2400|S49]] instead of or in addition to [[243/242|S9/11]]).
The last expression means tempering it out in any nontrivial tuning (that is, not 3edo), there is an exact neutral third between 5/4 and 6/5, which usually represents ~[[11/9]] (or more accurately [[49/40]], tempering out [[2401/2400]] instead of or in addition to [[243/242]]).


Notice that [[magic]] is a simpler analogue of würschmidt, reaching [[3/1]] with ([[5/4]])<sup>5</sup> which exceeds 3/1 by the magic comma, and a even simpler analogue of würschmidt is [[dicot]], where [[3/2]] is reached by ([[5/4]])<sup>2</sup>. More interesting is that there is a lower-accuracy but more complex analogue of würschmidt if we look at the pattern; the powers of [[5/4]] go 2 (dicot), 5 (magic), 8 (würschmidt), corresponding to increasingly sharp tunings of 5 where each additional three 5's represent a lowering of [[25/16]] by another [[128/125]]; finally, at ([[5/4]])<sup>11</sup> / ([[12/1]]), we get [[magus]], a sharp-major-third analogue of würschmidt, which is in some sense the logical dual of magic, which tunes 5/4 flat. There is no real reason to use magus unless you want a sharp [[5/4]] and/or want to use a temperament that happens to support it, a notable tuning of which is [[46edo]].
Notice that [[magic]] is a simpler analogue of würschmidt, reaching [[3/1]] with ([[5/4]])<sup>5</sup> which exceeds 3/1 by the magic comma, and a even simpler analogue of würschmidt is [[dicot]], where [[3/2]] is reached by ([[5/4]])<sup>2</sup>. More interesting is that there is a lower-accuracy but more complex analogue of würschmidt if we look at the pattern; the powers of [[5/4]] go 2 (dicot), 5 (magic), 8 (würschmidt), corresponding to increasingly sharp tunings of 5 where each additional three 5's represent a lowering of [[25/16]] by another [[128/125]]; finally, at ([[5/4]])<sup>11</sup> / ([[12/1]]), we get [[magus]], a sharp-major-third analogue of würschmidt, which is in some sense the logical dual of magic, which tunes 5/4 flat. There is little reason to use magus unless you want a sharp [[5/4]] and/or want to use a temperament that happens to support it, a notable tuning of which is [[46edo]].


== Temperaments ==
== Temperaments ==
Tempering out this comma leads to the [[würschmidt family]] of temperaments. Similar to [[meantone]], it implies that 3/2 will be tempered flat and/or 5/4 will be tempered sharp, and therefore 6/5 will be tempered flat. Unlike meantone, it is ''far'' more accurate; an ideal tuning of würschmidt sharpens the 5/4 by up to 1.43{{cent}} (corresponding to 1/8-comma würschmidt, where 3/2's are pure). Combining it with meantone gives [[31edo]] as the first real tuning but increasingly good 5-limit edo tunings after 31 (all of which distinguish the [[syntonic comma]]) are [[34edo]] and especially [[65edo]], although 34 + 65 = [[99edo]] certainly makes sense if you prefer its tuning properties. [[65edo]] has the distinguishing property of being the smallest würschmidt edo with a 5/4 in the aforementioned ideal tuning range, and corresponds to combining it with [[schismic]] (especially the extension to include prime 19 called [[nestoria]]) and [[gravity]], so is a very accurate 5-limit tuning that extends naturally to prime 11 (through the aforementioned [[243/242]] or equivalently through [[8019/8000]] or [[4000/3993]]) and prime 19 (through nestoria), among others. In an ideal tuning of würschmidt, [[5/4]] is sharpened by about 1.4{{cent}} leading to a tuning of 5/4 of about 387.7{{cent}}. 31 + 65 = [[96edo]] is also within the range of ideal tunings, corresponding to the fifth of [[12edo]], being 12 × 8.
Tempering out this comma leads to the [[würschmidt family]] of temperaments.  


[[Category:Würschmidt|#]] <!-- list on top of cat -->
[[Category:Würschmidt|#]] <!-- list on top of cat -->

Revision as of 11:21, 17 May 2024

Interval information
Ratio 393216/390625
Factorization 217 × 3 × 5-8
Monzo [17 1 -8
Size in cents 11.44529¢
Name Würschmidt comma
Color name sg83, Saquadbigu comma
FJS name [math]\displaystyle{ \text{dddd3}_{5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5} }[/math]
Special properties reduced
Tenney norm (log2 nd) 37.1604
Weil norm (log2 max(n, d)) 37.1699
Wilson norm (sopfr(nd)) 77
Comma size small
Open this interval in xen-calc

The Würschmidt comma ([17 1 -8 = 393216/390625) is a small 5-limit comma of 11.4 cents.

It is the amount by which an octave-reduced stack of eight classical major thirds falls short of a perfect fifth: (5/4)8(393216/390625)/4 = 3/2, which comes from 5/4 being a convergent in the continued fraction of [math]\displaystyle{ \sqrt[8]{6} }[/math]. (Therefore, it is also equal to the difference between seven major thirds and 24/5 (i.e. 6/5 plus two octaves), that is, (5/4)7(393216/390625)/4 = 6/5.)

In terms of commas, it is the difference between:

The last expression means tempering it out in any nontrivial tuning (that is, not 3edo), there is an exact neutral third between 5/4 and 6/5, which usually represents ~11/9 (or more accurately 49/40, tempering out 2401/2400 instead of or in addition to 243/242).

Notice that magic is a simpler analogue of würschmidt, reaching 3/1 with (5/4)5 which exceeds 3/1 by the magic comma, and a even simpler analogue of würschmidt is dicot, where 3/2 is reached by (5/4)2. More interesting is that there is a lower-accuracy but more complex analogue of würschmidt if we look at the pattern; the powers of 5/4 go 2 (dicot), 5 (magic), 8 (würschmidt), corresponding to increasingly sharp tunings of 5 where each additional three 5's represent a lowering of 25/16 by another 128/125; finally, at (5/4)11 / (12/1), we get magus, a sharp-major-third analogue of würschmidt, which is in some sense the logical dual of magic, which tunes 5/4 flat. There is little reason to use magus unless you want a sharp 5/4 and/or want to use a temperament that happens to support it, a notable tuning of which is 46edo.

Temperaments

Tempering out this comma leads to the würschmidt family of temperaments.