Dual-fifth tuning: Difference between revisions

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== Dual-fifth scales ==

Sixix[7] can be regarded as the scale which is the most authentic representation of the "dual-fifth" phenomenon via its ~~modes~~, since it features both sharp and flat fifth on different modes, and the interval in this case occupies 5 staff positions. For example, in [[25edo]], sixix can take form of 4 3 4 3 4 3 4, where five staff positions occupy 18\25 (sharp fifth), but if the mode is 3 4 3 4 3 4 4, then five staff positions are equal to 17\25 (flat fifth).

[[Sixix]][7] can be regarded as the scale which is the most authentic representation of the "dual-fifth" phenomenon via its [[mode]]s, since it features both sharp and flat fifth on different modes, and the interval in this case occupies 5 staff positions. For example, in [[25edo]], sixix can take form of 4 3 4 3 4 3 4, where five staff positions occupy 18\25 (sharp fifth), but if the mode is 3 4 3 4 3 4 4, then five staff positions are equal to 17\25 (flat fifth).

== Dual-fifth edos ==

[[35edo]] is the equal temperament which can be said to most authentically represent the concept of "dual-fifth", since its fifths of 20\35 and 21\35 correspond to the bounds of the tuning range for the [[diatonic]] scale where the term ''fifth'' in the standard Western practice originates from. 35edo is the largest edo without a diatonic scale, and it is therefore the smallest whose sharp and flat fifth can be equally treated as being ~~appoximants~~ of five staff positions of the diatonic scale.

[[35edo]] is the [[equal temperament]] which can be said to most authentically represent the concept of "dual-fifth", since its fifths of 20\35 and 21\35 correspond to the bounds of the tuning range for the [[diatonic]] scale where the term ''fifth'' in the standard Western practice originates from. 35edo is the largest [[edo]] without a diatonic scale, and it is therefore the smallest whose sharp and flat fifth can be equally treated as being approximants of five staff positions of the diatonic scale.

Although edos like [[18edo]], [[23edo]] and [[25edo]] have been extensively studied as dual-fifth, their corresponding dual-fifth intervals that are also often considered as [[2L 5s|mavila]] generators or subminor sixths, and not every musical approach treats them as approximants of 3/2 or intervals playing the role of the fifth.

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Perhaps a more familiar dual-fifth system to many is [[18edo]]. It is the first system that has intervals that are close enough to 3/2 that they can be regarded as sharp and flat fifth, but also far enough to sound different. Its sharp fifth and flat fifth are almost equally off from just: it has a 733.3¢ sharp fifth 31.4¢ sharp from pure [[3/2]], and a 666.7¢ flat fifth is 35.3¢ flat.

~~Some other~~ edos which have been studied as dual-fifth ~~are~~:

Other notable edos which have been studied as dual-fifth include:

* [[13edo]] (major fifth +36.5¢ from just, minor fifth -55.8¢ from just)

* [[23edo]] (major fifth +28.5¢ from just, minor fifth -23.7¢ from just)

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* [[100edo]]

* [[112edo]]

For a more complete list, refer to [[Category:Dual-fifth temperaments|category:Dual-fifth%20temperaments]].

We may, heuristically, define dual-fifth edos as those whose [[relative error]] of the third harmonic is greater than 1/3. In that case 1/3 of all edos will be dual-fifth and the other 2/3 will be plain-fifth.

== Dual-fifth temperaments ==

Unlike conventional temperaments, "[[dual-fifth temperaments]]" do not attempt to optimize every interval to low-limit JI, but treat the "sharp 3" (3⁺) and the "flat 3" (3⁻) as distinct dimensions. The sharp 3 and the flat 3 are not meant to represent JI intervals by themselves, but satisfy 3⁺ × 3⁻ = 9 (representing [[9/1]] in JI); hence 2.3⁻.9 and 2.3⁻.3⁺ are the same subgroup.

Unlike conventional temperaments, "[[dual-fifth temperaments]]" do not attempt to optimize every [[interval]] to low-limit [[JI]], but treat the "sharp 3" (3⁺) and the "flat 3" (3⁻) as distinct dimensions. The sharp 3 and the flat 3 are not meant to represent JI intervals by themselves, but satisfy 3⁺ × 3⁻ = 9 (representing [[9/1]] in JI); hence 2.3⁻.9 and 2.3⁻.3⁺ are the same [[subgroup]].

For example, "dual-3 sixix" is a 2.3⁻.9.5 temperament with an optimal generator around 335.8¢ (optimizing only the 2.9.5 portion of the subgroup). Two generators up make the flat fifth, and five generators down make the flat fourth. Hence 3 generators down represent [[9/8]] and 6 generators down represent [[5/4]]. Hence dual-3 sixix tempers out [[81/80]] in the 2.9.5 subgroup, but only every third interval in the sixix generator chains represents a JI interval.

For example, "dual-3 sixix" is a 2.3⁻.9.5 temperament with an optimal [[generator]] around 335.8¢ (optimizing only the 2.9.5 portion of the subgroup). Two generators up make the flat fifth, and five generators down make the flat fourth. Hence 3 generators down represent [[9/8]] and 6 generators down represent [[5/4]]. Hence dual-3 sixix tempers out [[81/80]] in the 2.9.5 subgroup, but only every third interval in the sixix generator chains represents a JI interval.

18edo is notable for supporting both dual-3 sixix and dual-3 A-Team with the 2.3⁻.3⁺.5 val {{val|18 28 29 42}}.

18edo is notable for supporting both dual-3 sixix and dual-3 [[A-Team]] with the 2.3⁻.3⁺.5 val {{val|18 28 29 42}}.

=== Multiple-fifth temperaments ===

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 == Dual-fifth scales ==
-Sixix[7] can be regarded as the scale which is the most authentic representation of the "dual-fifth" phenomenon via its modes, since it features both sharp and flat fifth on different modes, and the interval in this case occupies 5 staff positions. For example, in [[25edo]], sixix can take form of 4 3 4 3 4 3 4, where five staff positions occupy 18\25 (sharp fifth), but if the mode is 3 4 3 4 3 4 4, then five staff positions are equal to 17\25 (flat fifth).
+[[Sixix]][7] can be regarded as the scale which is the most authentic representation of the "dual-fifth" phenomenon via its [[mode]]s, since it features both sharp and flat fifth on different modes, and the interval in this case occupies 5 staff positions. For example, in [[25edo]], sixix can take form of 4 3 4 3 4 3 4, where five staff positions occupy 18\25 (sharp fifth), but if the mode is 3 4 3 4 3 4 4, then five staff positions are equal to 17\25 (flat fifth).
 == Dual-fifth edos ==
-[[35edo]] is the equal temperament which can be said to most authentically represent the concept of "dual-fifth", since its fifths of 20\35 and 21\35 correspond to the bounds of the tuning range for the [[diatonic]] scale where the term ''fifth'' in the standard Western practice originates from. 35edo is the largest edo without a diatonic scale, and it is therefore the smallest whose sharp and flat fifth can be equally treated as being appoximants of five staff positions of the diatonic scale.
+[[35edo]] is the [[equal temperament]] which can be said to most authentically represent the concept of "dual-fifth", since its fifths of 20\35 and 21\35 correspond to the bounds of the tuning range for the [[diatonic]] scale where the term ''fifth'' in the standard Western practice originates from. 35edo is the largest [[edo]] without a diatonic scale, and it is therefore the smallest whose sharp and flat fifth can be equally treated as being approximants of five staff positions of the diatonic scale.
 Although edos like [[18edo]], [[23edo]] and [[25edo]] have been extensively studied as dual-fifth, their corresponding dual-fifth intervals that are also often considered as [[2L 5s|mavila]] generators or subminor sixths, and not every musical approach treats them as approximants of 3/2 or intervals playing the role of the fifth.
@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 Perhaps a more familiar dual-fifth system to many is [[18edo]]. It is the first system that has intervals that are close enough to 3/2 that they can be regarded as sharp and flat fifth, but also far enough to sound different. Its sharp fifth and flat fifth are almost equally off from just: it has a 733.3¢ sharp fifth 31.4¢ sharp from pure [[3/2]], and a 666.7¢ flat fifth is 35.3¢ flat.
-Some other edos which have been studied as dual-fifth are:
+Other notable edos which have been studied as dual-fifth include:
 * [[13edo]] (major fifth +36.5¢ from just, minor fifth -55.8¢ from just)
 * [[23edo]] (major fifth +28.5¢ from just, minor fifth -23.7¢ from just)
@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 * [[100edo]]
 * [[112edo]]
+For a more complete list, refer to [[Category:Dual-fifth temperaments|category:Dual-fifth%20temperaments]].
 We may, heuristically, define dual-fifth edos as those whose [[relative error]] of the third harmonic is greater than 1/3. In that case 1/3 of all edos will be dual-fifth and the other 2/3 will be plain-fifth.
 == Dual-fifth temperaments ==
-Unlike conventional temperaments, "[[dual-fifth temperaments]]" do not attempt to optimize every interval to low-limit JI, but treat the "sharp 3" (3⁺) and the "flat 3" (3⁻) as distinct dimensions. The sharp 3 and the flat 3 are not meant to represent JI intervals by themselves, but satisfy 3⁺ × 3⁻ = 9 (representing [[9/1]] in JI); hence 2.3⁻.9 and 2.3⁻.3⁺ are the same subgroup.
+Unlike conventional temperaments, "[[dual-fifth temperaments]]" do not attempt to optimize every [[interval]] to low-limit [[JI]], but treat the "sharp 3" (3⁺) and the "flat 3" (3⁻) as distinct dimensions. The sharp 3 and the flat 3 are not meant to represent JI intervals by themselves, but satisfy 3⁺ × 3⁻ = 9 (representing [[9/1]] in JI); hence 2.3⁻.9 and 2.3⁻.3⁺ are the same [[subgroup]].
-For example, "dual-3 sixix" is a 2.3⁻.9.5 temperament with an optimal generator around 335.8¢ (optimizing only the 2.9.5 portion of the subgroup). Two generators up make the flat fifth, and five generators down make the flat fourth. Hence 3 generators down represent [[9/8]] and 6 generators down represent [[5/4]]. Hence dual-3 sixix tempers out [[81/80]] in the 2.9.5 subgroup, but only every third interval in the sixix generator chains represents a JI interval.
+For example, "dual-3 sixix" is a 2.3⁻.9.5 temperament with an optimal [[generator]] around 335.8¢ (optimizing only the 2.9.5 portion of the subgroup). Two generators up make the flat fifth, and five generators down make the flat fourth. Hence 3 generators down represent [[9/8]] and 6 generators down represent [[5/4]]. Hence dual-3 sixix tempers out [[81/80]] in the 2.9.5 subgroup, but only every third interval in the sixix generator chains represents a JI interval.
-edo is notable for supporting both dual-3 sixix and dual-3 A-Team with the 2.3⁻.3⁺.5 val {{val|18 28 29 42}}.
+edo is notable for supporting both dual-3 sixix and dual-3 [[A-Team]] with the 2.3⁻.3⁺.5 val {{val|18 28 29 42}}.
 === Multiple-fifth temperaments ===