User:Lhearne/Extra-Diatonic Intervals: Difference between revisions

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We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''
We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''


In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described:
In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described: (can't upload the bloody image again. pg 28)


[[File:Helmholtz consonances table.png|thumb|Table describing the influence of the different consonances on one another, up to the 9th partial, from ''On the Sensations of Tone as a Phycological Basis for Theory of Music'', Helmholtz, 1863, Translation by Ellis, 1875, pg. 187]]
[[File:Helmholtz consonances table.png|thumb|Table describing the influence of the different consonances on one another, up to the 9th partial, from ''On the Sensations of Tone as a Phycological Basis for Theory of Music'', Helmholtz, 1863, Translation by Ellis, 1875, pg. 187]]
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Helmholtz defined the ''perfect consonances'' as the Octave, Twelfth and Double Octave as well as Fourth and Fifth. The major Sixth and major Third are next called ''medial consonances'', considered to in the era of Pythagorean tuning to be ''imperfect consonances'', which Helmholtz defined instead to be the minor Third and the minor Sixth.
Helmholtz defined the ''perfect consonances'' as the Octave, Twelfth and Double Octave as well as Fourth and Fifth. The major Sixth and major Third are next called ''medial consonances'', considered to in the era of Pythagorean tuning to be ''imperfect consonances'', which Helmholtz defined instead to be the minor Third and the minor Sixth.


Regarding the tuning of the intervals however, those corresponding to simple ratios of vibration are, as in Smith, referred to as perfect, however hey are also described as 'justly-intoned', or by Ellis as 'just'. The perfect tuning for the semitone is listed as 16/15, or 182c. The perfect tunings are compared to the Pythagorean tunings, where the Pythagorean tuning of the major Third and sixth are described as 81/80 above the perfect tunings, and of the minor Third, minor Sixth and semitone to be 81/80 below the perfect tunings. Helmholtz notes that the Pythagorean tunings are closer to the equal tempered tunings than the perfect tunings. Helmholtz also describes the Pythagorean Tritone as of 612c.
The following table added by Ellis lists Pythagorean, 5-limit and tempered intervals, with Ellis' names also included.
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!Intervals
!Ellis' Interval Names
!Helmholtz's Notation
!Ellis's Notation of Intervals, reckoned from c
!Ratio
!Cents
|-
|Unison
|Unison
|
|
|
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|-
|Minor Second
|Tempered minor Second
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|-
|Minor Seocnd
|Just minor Second
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|-
|Major Second
|Minor Tone
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|-
|Major Second
|Tempered major Second or whole Tone
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|-
|Major Second
|Major Tone
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|-
|Major Second
|Diminished minor Third
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|-
|Minor Third
|Augmented Tone
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|-
|Minor Third
|Pythagorean minor Third
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|-
|Minor Third
|Tempered minor Third
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|-
|Minor Third
|Just minor Third
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|-
|Major Third
|Just major Third
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|-
|Major Third
|Tempered major Third
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|-
|Major Third
|Diminished Fourth
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|-
|Fourth
|Just Fourth
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|-
|Fourth
|Tempered Fourth
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|-
|Fourth
|Acute Fourth
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|-
|Sharp Fourth or Flat Fifth
|Superfluous Fourth
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|-
|Sharp Fourth or Flat Fifth
|False Fourth or Tritone
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|-
|Sharp Fourth or Flat Fifth
|Tempered sharp Fourth or flat Fifth
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|-
|Sharp Fourth or Flat Fifth
|Diminished Fifth
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|-
|Sharp Fourth or Flat Fifth
|Acute diminished Fifth
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|-
|Fifth
|Grave Fifth
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|-
|Fifth
|Tempered Fifth
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|-
|Fifth
|Just Fifth
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|-
|Minor Sixth
|Grave Superfluous Fifth
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|-
|Minor Sixth
|Tempered minor Sixth
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|-
|Minor Sixth
|Just minor Sixth
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|-
|Major Sixth
|Just major Sixth
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|-
|Major Sixth
|Tempered major Sixth
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|-
|Major Sixth
|Pythagorean major Sixth
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|-
|Major Sixth
|Diminished Seventh
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|-
|Major Sixth
|Extreme sharp Sixth
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|-
|Minor Seventh
|Minor Seventh
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|-
|Minor Seventh
|Tempered minor Seventh
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|-
|Minor Seventh
|Acute minor Seventh
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|-
|Major Seventh
|Just major Seventh
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|-
|Major Seventh
|Tempered major Seventh
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|-
|Octave
|Octave
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|}
In ''Notes on the Observations of Musical Beats'', Proc. R. Soc. Lond. 1880, Ellis named many just intervals of the 7-limit (including 3 and 5-limit intervals):<blockquote>‘Fifth 3:2, Fourth 4:3, Major Third 5:4, Minor Third 6:5, Major Sixth 5:3, Sub-Fifth 7:5, Super-Fourth 10:7, Super-major Third 9:7, Sub-minor Sixth 14:9, Sub-minor Third 7:6, Super-major Sixth 12:7, Sub-minor or Harmonic Seventh 7:4, Super-major Second 8:7, Major Tone 9:8, Minor Tone 10:9, Small Major Seventh 9:5 and Diatomic (sic.) Semitone 16:15’</blockquote>He later lists ‘The Major Sevenths 16:9 and 15:8’. The labeling of 16:9 as a Major Seventh and 9:5 as a Small Major Seventh is interesting and at odds with Smith's interval names. Given that 9:5 is larger than 16:9, and no Minor Seventh is mentioned, we can assume 16:9 was mislabeled as a Major Seventh and was understood to be a Minor Seventh, as referred to by Smith.  
In ''Notes on the Observations of Musical Beats'', Proc. R. Soc. Lond. 1880, Ellis named many just intervals of the 7-limit (including 3 and 5-limit intervals):<blockquote>‘Fifth 3:2, Fourth 4:3, Major Third 5:4, Minor Third 6:5, Major Sixth 5:3, Sub-Fifth 7:5, Super-Fourth 10:7, Super-major Third 9:7, Sub-minor Sixth 14:9, Sub-minor Third 7:6, Super-major Sixth 12:7, Sub-minor or Harmonic Seventh 7:4, Super-major Second 8:7, Major Tone 9:8, Minor Tone 10:9, Small Major Seventh 9:5 and Diatomic (sic.) Semitone 16:15’</blockquote>He later lists ‘The Major Sevenths 16:9 and 15:8’. The labeling of 16:9 as a Major Seventh and 9:5 as a Small Major Seventh is interesting and at odds with Smith's interval names. Given that 9:5 is larger than 16:9, and no Minor Seventh is mentioned, we can assume 16:9 was mislabeled as a Major Seventh and was understood to be a Minor Seventh, as referred to by Smith.  


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Ellis here uses the name for 8:7 we suggested above, Super-major Second, and includes our suggested Sub-minor Sixth and Super-major Sixth, however rather than Subminor Fifth and Supermajor Fourth, 7:5 and 10:7 are labelled Sub-Fifth and Super-Fourth, where in this instance sub and super are seen to raise and lower by 21:20 instead of by 36:35.  
Ellis here uses the name for 8:7 we suggested above, Super-major Second, and includes our suggested Sub-minor Sixth and Super-major Sixth, however rather than Subminor Fifth and Supermajor Fourth, 7:5 and 10:7 are labelled Sub-Fifth and Super-Fourth, where in this instance sub and super are seen to raise and lower by 21:20 instead of by 36:35.  
2/1, 3/2 and 4/3 were labelled 'perfect' because they were seen to be the perfect consonances. The two sizes of second, third, sixth and seventh in the diatonic scale are labelled ''major'' or ''minor'', the larger sizes of each labelled major. Any perfect or major interval raised by a chromatic semitone (the difference, for e.g. between C and C#) is referred to as 'Augmented' and any minor or perfect interval lowered by a chromatic semitone is referred to as 'diminished'.


Ellis, in a footnote to his translation also provides names for 11-limit intervals. The interval 22:27, of 355c, introduced by Zalzal, says Ellis was termed a ''neutral Third'' by Herr J. P. N. Land originally in ''Over de Toonladders der Arabische Musiek'' (On the Scales of Arabic Music) in 1880. An interval a fourth higher than this is mentioned, but a ratio is not given, and it is not named. We can ourselves however find it's ratio as 11:18, and guess it's name to be a ''neutral Sixth''. Following a similar process as in our completion of Helmholtz table above, and assuming that the octave inverse of a neutral Third should be a neutral Sixth we may introduce the following 11-limit intervals that see common use among music theorists and microtonal musicians through to today:
Ellis, in a footnote to his translation also provides names for 11-limit intervals. The interval 22:27, of 355c, introduced by Zalzal, says Ellis was termed a ''neutral Third'' by Herr J. P. N. Land originally in ''Over de Toonladders der Arabische Musiek'' (On the Scales of Arabic Music) in 1880. An interval a fourth higher than this is mentioned, but a ratio is not given, and it is not named. We can ourselves however find it's ratio as 11:18, and guess it's name to be a ''neutral Sixth''. Following a similar process as in our completion of Helmholtz table above, and assuming that the octave inverse of a neutral Third should be a neutral Sixth we may introduce the following 11-limit intervals that see common use among music theorists and microtonal musicians through to today:
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* A perfect interval, when raised a semitone is labelled 'augmented', and when lowered a semitone, 'diminished'.
* A perfect interval, when raised a semitone is labelled 'augmented', and when lowered a semitone, 'diminished'.


=== Extended Meantone ===
=== Extended Meantone ===  


Super and sub were further generalised by some theorists and musicians such that an interval a bit smaller than a major is referred to as a ''subminor third'', and an interval a bit larger than a minor third as a ''supraminor third''.  
Super and sub were further generalised by some theorists and musicians such that an interval a bit smaller than a major is referred to as a ''subminor third'', and an interval a bit larger than a minor third as a ''supraminor third''.