Talk:Rodan: Difference between revisions

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::: I think these sorts of standards for intervals are present on other temperaments too; more temperaments have these kinds of extended odd-limits than not, and I personally value having all that information over the risk of "cluttering" - I've already accepted some compromises with you, such as only showing positive generator steps for long chains like this. If you want to make changes, it will have to be a more general discussion with the community rather than concerning a particular temperament page. I don't want to make a grandfathered exception for commas either. Odd 55 is very structural in slendric extensions anyhow.

::: As for 13-limit vs 17-limit, I'm not thinking in terms of 87edo exclusively. I think it's notable that the "chords of rodan" page focuses on 11-limit, and in general for slendric extensions 5 tends to partner with 11 and 13 with 17, since both 17/13 and 55/32 are easily accessible at low generators. I'd add that all edos between 41edo and 46edo tuning that support 7-limit rodan also support 11-limit rodan, and additional patent val deviations occur both at 13 and 17-limit. 13 and 17 are also distinctly more complex than 5 and 11 are. Though as I said, the big motivator is not wanting to leave 17 alone (which in addition to serving an aesthetic purpose also helps with removing the "clutter" you mentioned by shunting off ratios of higher limits that would otherwise go in the same column as the others) when it isn't clearly worse or structurally weird compared to lower primes; in rodan's case, the extensions to 11, 13, and 17 are ''all'' motivated by general tendencies for the tempering already established in the 7-limit. I'd even be willing to make the split between ''7-limit'' and higher limits in order to more cleanly separate the complex ratios. -- [[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 15:37, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

::: As for 13-limit vs 17-limit, I'm not thinking in terms of 87edo exclusively. I think it's notable that the "chords of rodan" page focuses on 11-limit, and in general for slendric extensions 5 tends to partner with 11 and 13 with 17, since both 17/13 and 55/32 are easily accessible at low generators. I'd add that all edos between 41edo and 46edo tuning that support 7-limit rodan also support 11-limit rodan, and additional patent val deviations occur both at 13 and 17-limit. 13 and 17 are also distinctly more complex than 5 and 11 are. Though as I said, the big motivator is not wanting to leave 17 alone (which in addition to serving an aesthetic purpose also helps with removing the "clutter" you mentioned by shunting off ratios of higher limits that would otherwise go in the same column as the others) when it isn't clearly worse or structurally weird compared to lower primes; in rodan's case, the extensions to 11, 13, and 17 are ''all'' motivated by general tendencies for the tempering already established in the 7-limit. I'd even be willing to make the split between ''7-limit'' and higher limits in order to more cleanly separate the complex ratios.

::: Although I suppose the issue is that this convention is used on temperaments where the extensions ''are'' significantly higher-damage than the core temperament in a lower limit/subgroup, and without clarification it might appear that rodan is one of those... -- [[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 15:37, 15 June 2025 (UTC)

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 ::: I think these sorts of standards for intervals are present on other temperaments too; more temperaments have these kinds of extended odd-limits than not, and I personally value having all that information over the risk of "cluttering" - I've already accepted some compromises with you, such as only showing positive generator steps for long chains like this. If you want to make changes, it will have to be a more general discussion with the community rather than concerning a particular temperament page. I don't want to make a grandfathered exception for commas either. Odd 55 is very structural in slendric extensions anyhow.
-::: As for 13-limit vs 17-limit, I'm not thinking in terms of 87edo exclusively. I think it's notable that the "chords of rodan" page focuses on 11-limit, and in general for slendric extensions 5 tends to partner with 11 and 13 with 17, since both 17/13 and 55/32 are easily accessible at low generators. I'd add that all edos between 41edo and 46edo tuning that support 7-limit rodan also support 11-limit rodan, and additional patent val deviations occur both at 13 and 17-limit. 13 and 17 are also distinctly more complex than 5 and 11 are. Though as I said, the big motivator is not wanting to leave 17 alone (which in addition to serving an aesthetic purpose also helps with removing the "clutter" you mentioned by shunting off ratios of higher limits that would otherwise go in the same column as the others) when it isn't clearly worse or structurally weird compared to lower primes; in rodan's case, the extensions to 11, 13, and 17 are ''all'' motivated by general tendencies for the tempering already established in the 7-limit. I'd even be willing to make the split between ''7-limit'' and higher limits in order to more cleanly separate the complex ratios. -- [[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 15:37, 15 June 2025 (UTC)
+::: As for 13-limit vs 17-limit, I'm not thinking in terms of 87edo exclusively. I think it's notable that the "chords of rodan" page focuses on 11-limit, and in general for slendric extensions 5 tends to partner with 11 and 13 with 17, since both 17/13 and 55/32 are easily accessible at low generators. I'd add that all edos between 41edo and 46edo tuning that support 7-limit rodan also support 11-limit rodan, and additional patent val deviations occur both at 13 and 17-limit. 13 and 17 are also distinctly more complex than 5 and 11 are. Though as I said, the big motivator is not wanting to leave 17 alone (which in addition to serving an aesthetic purpose also helps with removing the "clutter" you mentioned by shunting off ratios of higher limits that would otherwise go in the same column as the others) when it isn't clearly worse or structurally weird compared to lower primes; in rodan's case, the extensions to 11, 13, and 17 are ''all'' motivated by general tendencies for the tempering already established in the 7-limit. I'd even be willing to make the split between ''7-limit'' and higher limits in order to more cleanly separate the complex ratios.
+::: Although I suppose the issue is that this convention is used on temperaments where the extensions ''are'' significantly higher-damage than the core temperament in a lower limit/subgroup, and without clarification it might appear that rodan is one of those... -- [[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 15:37, 15 June 2025 (UTC)