User:Eboone/EDO Impressions: Difference between revisions

Eboone (talk | contribs)
Added 17edo and 19edo descriptions, as well as the smackdown between them
Eboone (talk | contribs)
Added 18edo description and micro-semitonal edo recap
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''Tier: '''B+'''''
''Tier: '''B+'''''
[[File:18edo demo 2.mp3|none|thumb|18edo brass quintet in B♭]]
[[File:18edo demo 2.mp3|none|thumb|18edo brass quintet in B♭]]
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18edo is also known as the '''third-tone system''' because one step is exactly equal to one third of a whole-tone in 12edo. It sits in an interesting position, not being too similar to any edos around it. It inherits the subminor and major thirds from 9edo, along with a supraminor third. It also has two fifths that are almost equally equidistant from 3/2, making it a much more convincing dual fifth system than 13edo.
 
The acoustic version of the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-fTC2y7o_U allegro] of ''Twelve Microtonal Etudes for Electronic Music Media'' is one of my favorite pieces in 18edo. It's a very hectic piece that really taps into the dissonant nature of the temperament. ''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEvT2oyWEuo 3 Bagatelles]'' by [[norokusi]] is another absolutely beautiful piece (pieces?) that demonstrates this temperament wonderfully. It's honestly haunting, almost to the degree of 9edo...
 
...why is 9edo above 18edo on the tier list if it's a subset? Well, let's think back to a statement I made about 2edo. "In theory, there should be no reason to choose 1edo over 2edo, but how much does that one extra note really add in practice?" I believe the same thing applies here. 18edo seems to evoke the same emotions as 9edo, in my opinion. It's all about the dissonant fifths battling against the extremely consonant septimal intervals, and if 9edo can do it with half as many notes, that's all I need. I absolutely love using edos with less notes if they are able to convey the emotions that I am going for, even if that means I technically have less options.
 
Anyway, 18edo is actually really cool. In fact, I'm placing it right at the top of B tier, where it will remain unmoving. It's kind of like a mix of 12edo and 13edo, if that makes sense. It's like 13edo in that it supports oneirotonic and has a similar dissonant vibe, but it contains many structures found in 12edo due to their shared factors. This edo certainly has a lot of potential.


=== [[19edo]] ===
===[[19edo]]===
''Prime, 1° = 63.16¢, Fifth = 694.74¢ (11\19)''
''Prime, 1° = 63.16¢, Fifth = 694.74¢ (11\19)''


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Anyway, that's 19edo. Love it or hate it, it is a truly stunning edo that stands alone in its field until 31edo shows up. But will it win against its superpyth rival in a smackdown?!
Anyway, that's 19edo. Love it or hate it, it is a truly stunning edo that stands alone in its field until 31edo shows up. But will it win against its superpyth rival in a smackdown?!


=== 17edo vs 19edo Smackdown ===
===17edo vs 19edo Smackdown ===
Alright, time for the smackdown. Just looking at how much I wrote, it seems like I'll be handing it to 19edo, but 17edo definitely isn't done here. Let's see what happens if I swap the edos for the demos I wrote!
Alright, time for the smackdown. Just looking at how much I wrote, it seems like I'll be handing it to 19edo, but 17edo definitely isn't done here. Let's see what happens if I swap the edos for the demos I wrote!


Since 17edo is superpyth and 19edo is meantone, I couldn't exactly translate between the two seamlessly, preserving the notation. Sometimes I prioritized voice leading, and sometimes I prioritized the nature of the harmony, whether that meant totally altering the quality of a chord or not.
Since 17edo is superpyth and 19edo is meantone, I couldn't exactly translate between the two seamlessly, preserving the notation. Sometimes I prioritized voice leading, and sometimes I prioritized the nature of the harmony, whether that meant totally altering the quality of a chord or not.


==== 17edo demo retuned ====
====17edo demo retuned====
[[File:17edo demo but in 19edo.mp3|none|thumb|17edo metal demo retuned to 19edo]]
[[File:17edo demo but in 19edo.mp3|none|thumb|17edo metal demo retuned to 19edo]]
I'm just going to be honest, this is blatantly worse. Some of the voice leading doesn't really translate, particularly in the case of sus4 voicings. In 17edo, C is 1 degree above B, but in 19edo, they are 2 degrees apart, so the falling melody in the left hand of the piano loses some of its effect in the 19edo version. Bar 5 really does open up in this version, with the minor third being so much higher than in 17edo, but I can't really say that's a good thing. It's not bad, but I definitely prefer the darker quality of the noble minor third over the classic minor third in this particular context.
I'm just going to be honest, this is blatantly worse. Some of the voice leading doesn't really translate, particularly in the case of sus4 voicings. In 17edo, C is 1 degree above B, but in 19edo, they are 2 degrees apart, so the falling melody in the left hand of the piano loses some of its effect in the 19edo version. Bar 5 really does open up in this version, with the minor third being so much higher than in 17edo, but I can't really say that's a good thing. It's not bad, but I definitely prefer the darker quality of the noble minor third over the classic minor third in this particular context.
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Bar 4 is totally ruined. It's meant to feel like a monster coming from the floor and dragging you down into G minor through strange, dissonant voice leading, and 17edo nails this perfectly. 19edo fails on the 2nd beat because of the ridiculously pure D major triad being used in place of the D neutral triad in the original. There really isn't any better substitute, so this is a sound that 19edo simply cannot emulate. '''17edo wins this round!'''
Bar 4 is totally ruined. It's meant to feel like a monster coming from the floor and dragging you down into G minor through strange, dissonant voice leading, and 17edo nails this perfectly. 19edo fails on the 2nd beat because of the ridiculously pure D major triad being used in place of the D neutral triad in the original. There really isn't any better substitute, so this is a sound that 19edo simply cannot emulate. '''17edo wins this round!'''


==== 19edo demo retuned ====
====19edo demo retuned====
[[File:19edo demo but in 17edo.mp3|none|thumb|19edo lofi demo retuned to 17edo]]
[[File:19edo demo but in 17edo.mp3|none|thumb|19edo lofi demo retuned to 17edo]]
Perhaps it's unfair that I chose a style that works well in literally any edo, because this actually sounds very good. The previous demo is in a minor key, so 19edo sounds more open (and thus uncharacteristic, in my opinion), whereas this one is in a major key, so 17edo sounds more open. And I must say, something really is lost when attempting to translate 19edo's 5-limit consonances into whatever 17edo is. It just feels less locked in; it's a bit more "gritty." It still sounds really cool, but the marvelousness of 19edo really aids this track more than the crudeness of 17edo. In other words, we're looking for consonant dissonances, not just dissonances.
Perhaps it's unfair that I chose a style that works well in literally any edo, because this actually sounds very good. The previous demo is in a minor key, so 19edo sounds more open (and thus uncharacteristic, in my opinion), whereas this one is in a major key, so 17edo sounds more open. And I must say, something really is lost when attempting to translate 19edo's 5-limit consonances into whatever 17edo is. It just feels less locked in; it's a bit more "gritty." It still sounds really cool, but the marvelousness of 19edo really aids this track more than the crudeness of 17edo. In other words, we're looking for consonant dissonances, not just dissonances.
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With that being said, however, the 17edo version definitely doesn't sound nearly as bad as the 19edo metal. The noble major third is an entire quarter-tone wider than the marvelous major third, giving the 17edo version a totally different sound that really can't be emulated in 19edo. Still, I do prefer the original for the way it softens the dissonant intervals, so '''19edo wins this round!'''
With that being said, however, the 17edo version definitely doesn't sound nearly as bad as the 19edo metal. The noble major third is an entire quarter-tone wider than the marvelous major third, giving the 17edo version a totally different sound that really can't be emulated in 19edo. Still, I do prefer the original for the way it softens the dissonant intervals, so '''19edo wins this round!'''


==== Verdict ====
====Verdict====
Of course, retuning two 8-bar loops isn't going to decide which edo is better. This is just a fun experiment I thought I'd do, and I must say that '''17edo wins this showdown!''' The utter lack of neutral intervals in 19edo is why I ended up going with 17edo, but I do commend the 5-limit purity and interseptimal ethereality present in 19edo. At the end of the day, there really isn't a way to compare these in any objective sense because they're so different. They are both absolutely amazing edos considering their size!
Of course, retuning two 8-bar loops isn't going to decide which edo is better. This is just a fun experiment I thought I'd do, and I must say that '''17edo wins this showdown!''' The utter lack of neutral intervals in 19edo is why I ended up going with 17edo, but I do commend the 5-limit purity and interseptimal ethereality present in 19edo. At the end of the day, there really isn't a way to compare these in any objective sense because they're so different. They are both absolutely amazing edos considering their size!


By the way, this isn't the only showdown. Stay tuned... (pun intended)
By the way, this isn't the only showdown. Stay tuned... (pun intended)


=== Micro-Semitonal EDO Recap ===
===Micro-Semitonal EDO Recap===
[[File:Micro-Semitonal EDO Tier List.png|thumb|Tier list of edos 15-19]]
[[File:Micro-Semitonal EDO Tier List.png|thumb|Tier list of edos 15-19]]
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Three S tier edos in one category! All five of these edos are amazing for their own reasons. 15edo has a particular "living" quality that makes it great for lofi and Gymnopédie-style pieces. ''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBqXc4PTuLw Like Satie]'' by Hideya illustrates this quality quite well, and I will likely experiment with this sort of sound myself. 16edo is just amazing, evoking beautiful solemnity and bittersweetness that I cannot overstate. 18edo is its own thing entirely, sounding similar to 9edo but with more options for complex harmony. It's an incredibly potent edo that works extremely well in very particular contexts.
 
Then there's 17edo and 19edo, two of the most common edos to get people introduced into xenharmony. Supahstar Saga's "[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R9DX_-2JH0&list=PLha3CFvr8SzwlDpGL9MrJcoN8xOHyowsw Exploring 19-TET]" series is a brilliant introduction to 19edo that I would honestly recommend for anyone just getting into the realm of xenharmonic edos. I'm almost tempted to make my own series talking about various edos (if you're from the future and I have already done this, hi), sort of like this page you're reading but in video form so it's easier to digest.
 
I absolutely love the way 17edo's superpyth/parapyth hybrid flavor affects melodies. I generally prefer harder forms of the diatonic scale, so 19edo often feels too soft for me, but 17edo is just perfect. It lends itself very well to more extreme modes, like lydian and phrygian. Long live 17edo!


== Macro-Diesitonal ==
==Macro-Diesitonal==


=== [[20edo]] ===
===[[20edo]]===
''Tier: '''A'''''
''Tier: '''A'''''


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=== [[21edo]] ===
===[[21edo]]===
''Tier: '''A'''''
''Tier: '''A'''''


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=== [[22edo]] ===
===[[22edo]]===
''Tier: '''S'''''
''Tier: '''S'''''


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=== [[23edo]] ===
===[[23edo]]===
''Tier: '''B-'''''
''Tier: '''B-'''''


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=== [[24edo]] ===
===[[24edo]]===
''Tier: '''B+'''''
''Tier: '''B+'''''


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=== [[25edo]] ===
===[[25edo]]===
''Tier: '''B'''''
''Tier: '''B'''''


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=== [[26edo]] ===
===[[26edo]]===
''Tier: '''S-'''''
''Tier: '''S-'''''


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=== [[27edo]] ===
===[[27edo]]===
''Tier: '''A+'''''
''Tier: '''A+'''''


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=== [[28edo]] ===
===[[28edo]]===
''Tier: '''C+'''''
''Tier: '''C+'''''


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=== [[29edo]] ===
===[[29edo]]===
''Tier: '''B-'''''
''Tier: '''B-'''''


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=== Macro-Diesitonal EDO Recap ===
===Macro-Diesitonal EDO Recap===
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== Micro-Diesitonal ==
==Micro-Diesitonal==


=== [[30edo]] ===
===[[30edo]]===
''Tier: '''C'''''
''Tier: '''C'''''


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=== [[31edo]] ===
===[[31edo]]===
''Tier: '''S+'''''
''Tier: '''S+'''''


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=== [[32edo]] ===
===[[32edo]]===
''Tier: '''D-'''''
''Tier: '''D-'''''


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=== [[33edo]] ===
===[[33edo]]===
''Tier: '''F-'''''
''Tier: '''F-'''''


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=== [[34edo]] ===
===[[34edo]]===
''Tier: '''S+'''''
''Tier: '''S+'''''


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=== [[35edo]] ===
===[[35edo]]===
''Tier: '''C-'''''
''Tier: '''C-'''''


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=== [[36edo]] ===
===[[36edo]]===
''Tier: '''B+'''''
''Tier: '''B+'''''


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=== [[37edo]] ===
===[[37edo]]===
''Tier: '''C'''''
''Tier: '''C'''''


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=== [[38edo]] ===
===[[38edo]]===
''Tier: '''C-'''''
''Tier: '''C-'''''


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=== [[39edo]] ===
===[[39edo]]===
''Tier: '''D'''''
''Tier: '''D'''''


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=== Micro-Diesitonal EDO Recap ===
===Micro-Diesitonal EDO Recap===
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== Super-Syntonic ==
==Super-Syntonic==


=== [[40edo]] ===
===[[40edo]]===
''Tier: '''C+'''''
''Tier: '''C+'''''


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=== [[41edo]] ===
===[[41edo]]===
''Tier: '''A-'''''
''Tier: '''A-'''''


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=== [[42edo]] ===
===[[42edo]]===
''Tier: '''F'''''
''Tier: '''F'''''


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=== [[43edo]] ===
===[[43edo]]===
''Tier: '''C+'''''
''Tier: '''C+'''''


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=== [[44edo]] ===
===[[44edo]]===
''Tier: '''C-'''''
''Tier: '''C-'''''


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=== [[45edo]] ===
===[[45edo]]===
''Tier: '''F'''''
''Tier: '''F'''''


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=== [[46edo]] ===
===[[46edo]]===
''Tier: '''A+'''''
''Tier: '''A+'''''


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=== [[47edo]] ===
===[[47edo]]===
''Tier: '''C'''''
''Tier: '''C'''''


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=== [[48edo]] ===
===[[48edo]]===
''Tier: '''A+'''''
''Tier: '''A+'''''


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=== [[49edo]] ===
===[[49edo]]===
''Tier: '''C'''''
''Tier: '''C'''''


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=== [[50edo]] ===
===[[50edo]]===
''Tier: '''S'''''
''Tier: '''S'''''


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=== [[51edo]] ===
===[[51edo]]===
''Tier: '''D-'''''
''Tier: '''D-'''''


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=== [[52edo]] ===
===[[52edo]]===
''Tier: '''D+'''''
''Tier: '''D+'''''


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=== [[53edo]] ===
===[[53edo]]===
''Tier: '''S+'''''
''Tier: '''S+'''''


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=== [[54edo]] ===
===[[54edo]]===
''Tier: '''C'''''
''Tier: '''C'''''


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=== [[55edo]] ===
===[[55edo]]===
''Tier: '''A-'''''
''Tier: '''A-'''''


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=== Super-Syntonic EDO Recap ===
===Super-Syntonic EDO Recap===
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== Sub-Syntonic ==
==Sub-Syntonic==


=== [[56edo]] ===
===[[56edo]]===
''Tier: '''B-'''''
''Tier: '''B-'''''


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=== [[57edo]] ===
===[[57edo]]===
''Tier: '''C'''''
''Tier: '''C'''''


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=== [[58edo]] ===
===[[58edo]]===
''Tier: '''B'''''
''Tier: '''B'''''


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=== [[59edo]] ===
===[[59edo]]===
''Tier: '''C-'''''
''Tier: '''C-'''''


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=== [[60edo]] ===
===[[60edo]]===
''Tier: '''C'''''
''Tier: '''C'''''


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=== [[61edo]] ===
===[[61edo]]===
''Tier: '''D-'''''
''Tier: '''D-'''''


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=== [[62edo]] ===
===[[62edo]]===
''Tier: '''D+'''''
''Tier: '''D+'''''


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=== [[63edo]] ===
===[[63edo]]===
''Tier: '''B'''''
''Tier: '''B'''''


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=== [[64edo]] ===
===[[64edo]]===
''Tier: '''D'''''
''Tier: '''D'''''


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=== [[65edo]] ===
===[[65edo]]===
''Tier: '''A'''''
''Tier: '''A'''''


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=== [[66edo]] ===
===[[66edo]]===
''Tier: '''D+'''''
''Tier: '''D+'''''


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=== [[67edo]] ===
===[[67edo]]===
''Tier: '''C-'''''
''Tier: '''C-'''''


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=== [[68edo]] ===
===[[68edo]]===
''Tier: '''C'''''
''Tier: '''C'''''


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=== [[69edo]] ===
===[[69edo]]===
''Tier: '''F+'''''
''Tier: '''F+'''''


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=== [[70edo]] ===
===[[70edo]]===
''Tier: '''C'''''
''Tier: '''C'''''


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=== [[71edo]] ===
===[[71edo]]===
''Tier: '''D'''''
''Tier: '''D'''''


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=== [[72edo]] ===
===[[72edo]]===
''Tier: '''S'''''
''Tier: '''S'''''


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=== Sub-Syntonic EDO Recap ===
===Sub-Syntonic EDO Recap===
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