Talk:256/255: Difference between revisions

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::: Also, in regards to the alternative name "diasemitonisma", it strikes me as a bit cumbersome to describe the 2.3.5.17[12 & 22] temperament as "diasemitonic semitonic". It's not a bad name per se but what's wrong with the name change proposal? Charisma and Charismic already need renaming anyways and there are two fairly obvious options that seem fine and clearly related for what to change them to. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 16:16, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

:::: Also, it still might give the impression of being related to [[diasem]]. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 01:10, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

::: I should also add: The poll that was done on the XA Discord server '''did''' include renaming the temps currently named Charisma and Charismic too! (For the various reasons stated.) --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 18:38, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

:: For avoiding confusion of temperament names, I have proposed more alternative names for 256/255: "char comma", "charic comma", and "charsma" (no-''i'' spelling). Then, 2.3.5.17 rank-3 temperament associated by this comma should be named "charic" and associated full 17-limit rank-6 temperament "charsmic" or "char". --[[User:Xenllium|Xenllium]] ([[User talk:Xenllium|talk]]) 05:06, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

::: I don't suppose there's confusion as the temperaments are also being renamed. No one is known to have used them. You can see what Graham has to say [https://www.facebook.com/groups/xenharmonicmath/permalink/2865100270296843/ here].

::: For that reason and for the reason that ''charisma'' is a real word and that -ismic and -ic are standard naming patterns now, I suggest we settle at ''charisma''/''charismic''/''charic''.

::: I personally am not fond of ''diasemisma''/''diasemismic''/''diasemic'' since 17/16 isn't universally accepted as a diatonic semitone, but I'm okay with this group of names due to their mnemonic nature. It doesn't harm by keeping them.

::: [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:56, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

::: Firstly, it is not my name proposal; I mentioned that it was proposed by Starshine on the [[XA Discord]], I merely championed the name. Secondly, please do not add your modified versions of the proposal to the pages given neither I nor anyone else have touched the page up until this point with regards to the proposal and given you have not waited for a consensus for the proposal and given I have taken every liberty I can of waiting for consensus and the full range of reasonings/opinions to come in. While I am not entirely against "charsmic" instead of "charismic", as Fumica said it defies the -isma -ic -ismic convention and even from an aesthetic point of view to me it is unfavourable to have "rsm" in a name especially given it generates confusion with the standard. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 16:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

:::: Apologies, I didn't realize someone had changed the Horcrux names already so what I said is not fully true. I also want to make clear that I do appreciate your consideration. I think much of this would go more smoothly if there was a more official/standard process for names and the occasional renames. I am working on that right now. I would be grateful if anyone wants to improve what I will add. Ideally though, if it is not a convention that will likely be taken as uncontroversial, then discuss it first in the corresponding talk page. Kind regards, --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 18:01, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

::::: While it is not quite finished yet (EG it is pending contribution and opinions of more users plus I have yet to reread it in its entirety one last time and see if anything else comes to mind in the way of missing points or rewordings for clarity), please take a look at what I have so far here: [[Temperament naming #Temperament/comma (re)naming conventions]]. I've vetted a simplified version of it with FloraC and Fredg999. Note also that almost every point for renaming applies to the situation for [[256/255]]; it got me thinking about that there ought to be a set of conventions by which renames can be judged as not inherently controversial, especially if there are many points in favour of them. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 19:16, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

:::: The suffix "-isma" sometimes appears its no-''i'' form, "-sma" (eg. [[2401/2400|breedsma]]), as well as its adjectival form "-ismic" (sometimes "-smic"). It is within the convention of the naming of commas and associated temperaments, not an exception. The word "[[Wiktionary:charisma|charisma]]" originally means personal charm or the ability to influence without logic, so it is unlikely to understand referring to char (8-bit byte). For clarification, the interval 256/255 should be called "char comma" or "charsma", and its associated rank-6 temperament "char temperament" or "charsmic". --[[User:Xenllium|Xenllium]] ([[User talk:Xenllium|talk]]) 13:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

::::: Good point, I've added it to the [[temperament and comma naming conventions]] ([https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=Temperament_naming&type=revision&diff=131974&oldid=131666 relevant diff here]), but in this case it ruins the pun with the English words "charisma" and "charismic" (which was one of the motivations of the proposal). --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 14:46, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

::::: Just in case, I added [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=256%2F255&type=revision&diff=131984&oldid=131926 Not to be confused with Horcrux] to [[256/255]] too. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 14:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

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 ::: Also, in regards to the alternative name "diasemitonisma", it strikes me as a bit cumbersome to describe the 2.3.5.17[12 & 22] temperament as "diasemitonic semitonic". It's not a bad name per se but what's wrong with the name change proposal? Charisma and Charismic already need renaming anyways and there are two fairly obvious options that seem fine and clearly related for what to change them to. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 16:16, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
+:::: Also, it still might give the impression of being related to [[diasem]]. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 01:10, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
+::: I should also add: The poll that was done on the XA Discord server '''did''' include renaming the temps currently named Charisma and Charismic too! (For the various reasons stated.) --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 18:38, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
+:: For avoiding confusion of temperament names, I have proposed more alternative names for 256/255: "char comma", "charic comma", and "charsma" (no-''i'' spelling). Then, 2.3.5.17 rank-3 temperament associated by this comma should be named "charic" and associated full 17-limit rank-6 temperament "charsmic" or "char". --[[User:Xenllium|Xenllium]] ([[User talk:Xenllium|talk]]) 05:06, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
+::: I don't suppose there's confusion as the temperaments are also being renamed. No one is known to have used them. You can see what Graham has to say [https://www.facebook.com/groups/xenharmonicmath/permalink/2865100270296843/ here].
+::: For that reason and for the reason that ''charisma'' is a real word and that -ismic and -ic are standard naming patterns now, I suggest we settle at ''charisma''/''charismic''/''charic''.
+::: I personally am not fond of ''diasemisma''/''diasemismic''/''diasemic'' since 17/16 isn't universally accepted as a diatonic semitone, but I'm okay with this group of names due to their mnemonic nature. It doesn't harm by keeping them.
+::: [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 08:56, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
+::: Firstly, it is not my name proposal; I mentioned that it was proposed by Starshine on the [[XA Discord]], I merely championed the name. Secondly, please do not add your modified versions of the proposal to the pages given neither I nor anyone else have touched the page up until this point with regards to the proposal and given you have not waited for a consensus for the proposal and given I have taken every liberty I can of waiting for consensus and the full range of reasonings/opinions to come in. While I am not entirely against "charsmic" instead of "charismic", as Fumica said it defies the -isma -ic -ismic convention and even from an aesthetic point of view to me it is unfavourable to have "rsm" in a name especially given it generates confusion with the standard. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 16:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
+:::: Apologies, I didn't realize someone had changed the Horcrux names already so what I said is not fully true. I also want to make clear that I do appreciate your consideration. I think much of this would go more smoothly if there was a more official/standard process for names and the occasional renames. I am working on that right now. I would be grateful if anyone wants to improve what I will add. Ideally though, if it is not a convention that will likely be taken as uncontroversial, then discuss it first in the corresponding talk page. Kind regards, --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 18:01, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
+::::: While it is not quite finished yet (EG it is pending contribution and opinions of more users plus I have yet to reread it in its entirety one last time and see if anything else comes to mind in the way of missing points or rewordings for clarity), please take a look at what I have so far here: [[Temperament naming #Temperament/comma (re)naming conventions]]. I've vetted a simplified version of it with FloraC and Fredg999. Note also that almost every point for renaming applies to the situation for [[256/255]]; it got me thinking about that there ought to be a set of conventions by which renames can be judged as not inherently controversial, especially if there are many points in favour of them. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 19:16, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
+:::: The suffix "-isma" sometimes appears its no-''i'' form, "-sma" (eg. [[2401/2400|breedsma]]), as well as its adjectival form "-ismic" (sometimes "-smic"). It is within the convention of the naming of commas and associated temperaments, not an exception. The word "[[Wiktionary:charisma|charisma]]" originally means personal charm or the ability to influence without logic, so it is unlikely to understand referring to char (8-bit byte). For clarification, the interval 256/255 should be called "char comma" or "charsma", and its associated rank-6 temperament "char temperament" or "charsmic". --[[User:Xenllium|Xenllium]] ([[User talk:Xenllium|talk]]) 13:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
+::::: Good point, I've added it to the [[temperament and comma naming conventions]] ([https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=Temperament_naming&type=revision&diff=131974&oldid=131666 relevant diff here]), but in this case it ruins the pun with the English words "charisma" and "charismic" (which was one of the motivations of the proposal). --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 14:46, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
+::::: Just in case, I added [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=256%2F255&type=revision&diff=131984&oldid=131926 Not to be confused with Horcrux] to [[256/255]] too. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 14:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)