64/63: Difference between revisions

Cleanup and amend on problematic statements
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: ''"Septimal comma" redirects here. For non-idiomatic usages, see [[Septimal]] and [[Comma]].''
{{Infobox Interval
{{Infobox Interval
| Name = septimal comma, Archytas' comma
| Name = septimal comma, Archytas' comma
| Color name = r1, ru unison, <br/>Ru comma
| Color name = r1, ru unison,<br/>rM, ruma
| Sound = Ji-64-63-csound-foscil-220hz.mp3
| Sound = Ji-64-63-csound-foscil-220hz.mp3
| Comma = yes
| Comma = yes
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== Temperaments ==
== Temperaments ==
[[Tempering out]] this comma equates 9/8 and 8/7, and also equates [[7/4]] with [[16/9]], so that the just dominant seventh chord, [[36:45:54:64|1–5/4–3/2–16/9]], and the harmonic seventh chord, [[4:5:6:7|1–5/4–3/2–7/4]], are equated to the same chord. Equal temperaments tempering out 64/63 include {{EDOs| 12, 15, 22, 27, 37, 49 and 59 }}.
[[Tempering out]] this comma leads to [[superpyth]] temperament (sometimes called ''archy'' in the 2.3.7-subgroup), which equates 9/8 and 8/7, and also equates [[7/4]] with [[16/9]]. This means that the just dominant seventh chord, [[36:45:54:64|1–5/4–3/2–16/9]], and the harmonic seventh chord, [[4:5:6:7|1–5/4–3/2–7/4]], are equated to the same chord. Equal temperaments tempering out 64/63 include {{EDOs| 12, 15, 17, 22, 27, 37, 49 and 59 }}.


Archytas' comma is similar to Didymus' or the syntonic comma, 81/80, in that when it is tempered out it makes a stack of four fifths [[octave reduction|octave reduced]] equal a relatively consonant major third. In the case of 81/80, the major third is [[5/4]], while with Archytas' comma, the major third is [[9/7]].  
Archytas' comma is similar to Didymus' or the syntonic comma, 81/80, in that when it is tempered out it makes a stack of four fifths [[octave reduction|octave reduced]] equal a relatively consonant major third. In the case of 81/80, the major third is [[5/4]], while with Archytas' comma, the major third is [[9/7]].  


If you are using 9/7 major thirds, this also implies that the major third is split into two equal steps that represent both [[9/8]] and [[8/7]]: if a stack of four fifths gets you to (octave-equivalent) 9/7, and a stack of two fifths gets you to 9/8, then the difference must be (9/7)/(9/8) = 8/7. The 8/7 and 9/8 intervals are equal, however, as a result of the generation process.
If one is using 9/7 major thirds, this also implies that the major third is split into two equal steps that represent both [[9/8]] and [[8/7]]: if a stack of four fifths (octave-reduced) reaches the interval 9/7, and a stack of two fifths reaches 9/8, then the difference must be (9/7)/(9/8) = 8/7. The 8/7 and 9/8 intervals are equated, however, as a result of the generation process.


See [[Archytas family]] for the family of rank-3 temperaments where it is tempered out; see [[Archytas clan]] for the clan of rank-2 temperaments where it is tempered out.  
See [[Archytas family]] for the family of rank-3 temperaments where it is tempered out. See [[Archytas clan]] for the clan of rank-2 temperaments where it is tempered out.


== Approximation ==
== Comma pumps ==
If one wants to treat Archytas' comma as a musical interval in its own right as opposed to tempering it out, you will find that it acts as a sort of chroma – specifically, it functions as a septimal equivalent of [[55/54]], from which it differs by a [[385/384|keenanisma]], or of [[56/55]], from which it differs by a [[441/440|werckisma]]. In addition, its incredible proximity to 1/44th of the octave – to the point where the [[septimal ruthenia|44-64/63 comma]] is tempered out in edos as large as tens of thousands – enables the tuning of [[ruthenium]] temperament. As a result, the major second of [[22edo]] is a good approximation to [[17/15]], due to it being the [[mediant]] of [[9/8]] and [[8/7]], so that the ~7:8:9 chord is much more accurately a 17/15–17/15 chord, with the outer interval as 9/7, by tempering out [[2025/2023]].
The septimal version of the common vi–ii–V–I progression, which uses the 6:7:9 subminor and 14:18:21 supermajor triads, requires that 64/63 be tempered out in order to avoid shifting the root. If 64/63 is not tempered out and intervals are kept pure, the root in the final I chord will be 64/63 higher than the root in the vi chord.
{{todo|add sound example}}


== Notation ==
== Notation ==
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=== Sagittal notation ===
=== Sagittal notation ===
In the [[Sagittal]] system, the downward version of this comma (possibly tempered) is represented by the sagittal {{sagittal | !) }} and is called the '''7 comma''', or '''7C''' for short, because the simplest interval it notates is 7/1 (equiv. 7/4), as for example in G–F{{nbhsp}}{{sagittal | !) }}. The upward version is called '''1/7C''' or '''7C up''' and is represented by {{sagittal| |) }}.
In the [[Sagittal]] system, the downward version of this comma (possibly tempered) is represented by the sagittal {{sagittal | !) }} and is called the '''7 comma''', or '''7C''' for short, because the simplest interval it notates is 7/1 (equiv. 7/4), as for example in G–F{{nbhsp}}{{sagittal | !) }}. The upward version is called '''1/7C''' or '''7C up''' and is represented by {{sagittal| |) }}.
== Approximation ==
If one wants to treat Archytas' comma as a musical interval in its own right as opposed to tempering it out, you will find that it acts as a sort of chroma – specifically, it functions as a septimal equivalent of [[55/54]], from which it differs by a [[385/384|keenanisma]], or of [[56/55]], from which it differs by a [[441/440|werckisma]]. In addition, its incredible proximity to 1/44th of the octave – to the point where the [[septimal ruthenia|44-64/63 comma]] is tempered out in edos as large as tens of thousands – enables the tuning of [[ruthenium]] temperament. As a result, the major second of [[22edo]] is a good approximation to [[17/15]], due to it being the [[mediant]] of [[9/8]] and [[8/7]], so that the ~7:8:9 chord is much more accurately a 17/15–17/15 chord, with the outer interval as 9/7, by tempering out [[2025/2023]].


== See also ==
== See also ==
* [[Septimal comma]] (disambiguation page)
* [[Gallery of just intervals]]
* [[Gallery of just intervals]]
* [[List of superparticular intervals]]
* [[List of superparticular intervals]]