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This page is for general discussion on how to improve the wiki
<div style="border: 1px green solid; background-color: #efe; padding: 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em">
'''Hello there! This page is for general discussion on how to improve the wiki. A community wish list of sorts.'''


'''FOR BUGS, PLEASE REPORT THEM AT [[Bugs]]'''
If you have an experimental proposal for changing or adding to the wiki in a new way, post it on this page.
 
If you have a proposal to improve the basic fundamentals of the wiki, post it at: [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Things to do|Things to Do]].
 
For bugs, please report them at: [[Bugs]].
 
 
 
''See also: [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Conventions|Conventions]], [[Projects#WikiProjects]], [[Help:Migration FAQ]], as well as [[:Category:Todo]] and its subcategories.''
</div>
 
{{Archives}}


== Future of this wiki ==
== Future of this wiki ==
Please leave suggestions below. Don't forget to sign them: type <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after your comment to leave a signature. For example: [[User:Battaglia01|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Battaglia01|talk]]) 12:46, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
=== Improved Yahoo! search engine ===
Now that you can do an advanced search of the tuning (or other) list over the entirety of its life on Yahoo, there is less need to copy things from the tuning list archive. On the other hand, particularly well-written emails might deserve to get their own page. Authors' permissions necessary? [[User:Xenjacob|zenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
=== Database of "microtonal solutions" ===
Not only examples of hardware-software setups as Jon Szanto has repeatedly suggested, but also acoustic solutions, experiencial instrument-making info, a list with the location of every known rare microtonal instrument, and perhaps a way for composers to write for such instruments (providing the curators of them want this)
An instrument-centric approach: [[MicrotonalInstruments]]. [[User:Xenjacob|zenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


Please leave suggestions below. Don't forget to sign them: type <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after your comment to leave a signature. For example: [[User:Battaglia01|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Battaglia01|talk]]) 12:46, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
=== Improved Listening List ===
The list of downloadable microtonal sounds is in good shape. It does need people to watch relevant sources (tuning and MMM lists come to mind) and add/update the links. A reviewing or rating system, perhaps also of CD releases, may additionally be helpful. [[User:Xenjacob|zenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


=== Complete incomplete articles ===
=== Pages on debates? ===
Eighteen articles in this wiki are incomplete. Without people to add info, this wiki couldn't progress. We encourage users to complete the articles below and hope former experienced {{SITENAME}} users come here. If an article becomes complete, a new placeholder article may be done (such as an [[EDO#100...199|edo]] or [[Special:WantedPages|a broken link]]) to replace the previous in the list to give experienced users more to do.
Do we want to touch the dangerous stuff? JI vs. ET vs. EDO? MMM vs. just plain MM? The point would not be to have another place to play out the old arguments, but to ''make'' something useful out of them.


Pages in this list can also be seen at [[:Category:Stub]] (however that category is moderated by everyone, while this list is moderated by [[User:PiotrGrochowski]], so the two lists may diverge over time).
On the other hand, we ''could'' make pages on points that many can agree on, with the aim of working together to come up with ways to meet our collective goals. The obvious one, originally Harry Partch: Microtonality is overlooked or dismissed all too often, and the best way to counter its detractors is in making good music with it. [[User:Xenjacob|zenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 21:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


See [[:Category:Todo]] for articles with other issues.
=== More on making things: a radical proposal ===
To me, the wiki as a structure remains an invitation to try new ways to represent information and to cause social interaction to happen. Much of this is overlap with the general Web 2.0 mentality, as well as creeping exhibitionism: why blog or wiki about something you're doing instead of just doing it? What I add to it are '''Unreasonable Expectations''' (that others are doing similar things and just need a poke or two in the direction of sharing) and '''Half-Baked Ideas''' (for projects that I personally don't have the time to complete but we can perhaps get a coalition of the wishing-it-would-happen). This idea itself is admittedly half-baked, but (and this is the point) I don't let it stop me.


#[[Table of 171edo intervals]] (complete a big table)
So the radical proposal is this: be irresponsible. Start something you don't intend to finish, just to see how beautiful it is. Pretend you are backed up by a solid movement of joyous people rather than a smattering of bickering and frigid but seemingly well-meaning folks. And it will (maybe) come true. [[User:Xenjacob|xenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]] 15:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
#[[Well Temperament]] (add more information)
#[[107edo]] (add more information)
#[[153edo]] (add more information)
#[[218edo]] (add more information)
#<s>[[0/0]] (add more information)</s>
#[[225/224]] (add more information)
#[[32805/32768]] (add more information)
#[[15625/15552]] (add more information)
#[[Tritone]] (add more information)
#[[167edo]] (add more information)
#[[110edo]] (add more information)
#[[Frequency ratio]] (add more information)
#[[Extended meantone notation]] (find symbols for the notation)
#[[436edo]] (add more information)
#[[1445/1444]] (add more information)
#[[Xenharmonic Wiki:General disclaimer]] (add more information)
#[[117edo]] (add more information)
(from User:PiotrGrochowski)


=== Javascript Strategy ===
=== Javascript strategy ===
Javascript is by default disabled on Mediawiki for security reasons. However, it could be a really really powerful tool for making accessible, interactive explanations for a lot of things. Just as an example, imagine that any number followed by ¢ would automagically create an exemplary audio file like the one linked to at the top of [[octave]]...imagine something like that playing when you hover over the text. Or imagine a [[wikipedia:Lissajous curve|Lissajous curve]] appears in the background when you hover over a just ratio. There are some of us capable in Javascript, and some extant widgets written in Javascript, like [https://ia601408.us.archive.org/1/items/mosedo.html/mosedo.html Billy Stiltner's MOSedo] and [http://untwelve.org/online_tools AKJ's tools]. We need at least a collected xenharmonic Javascript library, and maybe that project can't live here, but it would be nice to see it eventually integrated somehow. [[User:Xenjacob|Xenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]]) 15:51, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
Javascript is by default disabled on Mediawiki for security reasons. However, it could be a really really powerful tool for making accessible, interactive explanations for a lot of things. Just as an example, imagine that any number followed by ¢ would automagically create an exemplary audio file like the one linked to at the top of [[octave]]...imagine something like that playing when you hover over the text. Or imagine a [[wikipedia:Lissajous curve|Lissajous curve]] appears in the background when you hover over a just ratio. There are some of us capable in Javascript, and some extant widgets written in Javascript, like [https://ia601408.us.archive.org/1/items/mosedo.html/mosedo.html Billy Stiltner's MOSedo] and [http://untwelve.org/online_tools AKJ's tools]. We need at least a collected xenharmonic Javascript library, and maybe that project can't live here, but it would be nice to see it eventually integrated somehow. [[User:Xenjacob|Xenjacob]] ([[User talk:Xenjacob|talk]]) 15:51, 22 September 2018 (UTC)


=== Add more languages ===
=== Create pages for the Edo recommendation hub page ===
Create pages where you recommend a list of [[edo]]s to beginners.
 
Follow the standardised structure shown on the page [[Edo recommendation hub page]] to make it easy for readers to compare with the other lists.
 
When your page is done, link it on [[Edo recommendation hub page]].
 
And/or create flow charts to help beginners choose edos,  and link those on [[Edo recommendation hub page]].


This wiki could benefit from [[What languages do various users know?|wiki translators]] to add new languages to this wiki. [[User:PiotrGrochowski|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski|talk]]) 18:05, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
[[Budjarn Lambeth]] 05:46, 15 December 2024 (UTC)


=== Add image annotations ===
=== Create a unified "Chains, circles and spirals" page ===
Could you install this https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Gadget-ImageAnnotator/Installation so we can add annotations to diagrams, like labeling chords in [[:File:Consonance map, triads, sawtooth waves.png]] ? [[User:ResonantFrequencies|ResonantFrequencies]] ([[User talk:ResonantFrequencies|talk]]) 17:51, 26 January 2019 (UTC)


: Process for importing templates and all their dependencies: https://webmasters.stackexchange.com/questions/117429/how-to-use-wikipedia-templates-on-an-outside-mediawiki/117436#117436 [[User:ResonantFrequencies|ResonantFrequencies]] ([[User talk:ResonantFrequencies|talk]]) 02:38, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
On the [[Discord]] today, [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] posted the following proposal, it received a lot of upvotes:


=== originally coming from <code>wikispaces</code> ===
::"Chains are basically 1d lattices, probably something worth mentioning in some form.


=== Transfer from riters.com ===
::Circles and spirals are just different ways to represent chains.


There are still a couple of pages at [https://web.archive.org/web/20050503032508/http://riters.com:80/microtonal/ http://riters.com/microtonal] that could be copied over if we want this to be the one true wiki. (from Wikispaces)<br>Warning: That site is very old!
::Therefore, it would make sense to have a single page about chains, circles and spirals.  
(from User:PiotrGrochowski)


::The merge doesn't have to be done immediately, of course, but I think that's the best course of action in the long term.


::Chains are relevant not only in edos, but also in rank-2 regular temperaments, where the octave dimension is collapsed (as is common in a circle of fifths, for that matter), leaving only one other generator to stack, making a single chain. Several temperament pages have such chains, for that matter."


----
[[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 07:05, 20 December 2024 (UTC)


== Archived from Wikispaces ==
=== Donations link? ===


Below is the original archived discussion from Wikispaces. It's also relevant, delete if done. '''After any user edits made to the below, it will be moved above''', as in the "transfer from riters" situation, which is categorized above due to being edited by [[User:PiotrGrochowski]].
I'd like to contribute to support the site. Where can I do this?  I searched (admittedly several weeks ago now) using "contribute", "contribution", "donate", "donation", "subscribe", and "subscription", but did not find anything. (The home page has a section titled "Contributing to the Xenharmonic Wiki", but it doesn't say anything about contributing money to help run the site.) If a page for this (or some functional equivalent) exists (does one exist?), it should have a link from the home page.  
== A To-Do list, all points of discussion ==


===Notation===
Added:  [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio|talk]]) 21:45, 24 March 2025 (UTC)<br>
A section on notation
Last modified:  [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio|talk]]) 22:29, 10 September 2025 (UTC)


===Improved Yahoo! search engine===
: Me too, and I'd like information about who runs it and how it will stay online when people disappear or lose interest, etc. Too much link rot these days... [[User:ResonantFrequencies|ResonantFrequencies]] ([[User talk:ResonantFrequencies|talk]]) 22:37, 23 December 2025 (UTC)
Now that you can do an advanced search of the tuning (or other) list over the entirety of its life on Yahoo, there is less need to copy things from the tuning list archive. On the other hand, particularly well-written emails might deserve to get their own page. Authors' permissions necessary?


===Database of "microtonal solutions"===
:: The person who runs it is Tyler Henthorn, contactable on the [[Xenharmonic Alliance]] Facebook groups. He is quite busy at the moment though trying to modify the site so it's less vulnerable to AI scraper bots (which cause lag and downtime) - so he may not be able to reply for a few days due to that.
not only examples of hardware-software setups as Jon Szanto has repeatedly suggested, but also acoustic solutions, experiencial instrument-making info, a list with the location of every known rare microtonal instrument, and perhaps a way for composers to write for such instruments (providing the curators of them want this)


An instrument-centric approach: [[MicrotonalInstruments]]
You can alternatively contact any of the people listed in [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Bureaucrats]] - Flora and Fredg are the most active.


===Improved Listening List===
Anyone can make their own backups of the wiki for free - go to [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Backups]] for information on how to do that. --[[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 02:45, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
The list of downloadable microtonal sounds is in good shape. It does need people to watch relevant sources (tuning and MMM lists come to mind) and add/update the links. A reviewing or rating system, perhaps also of CD releases, may additionally be helpful.


===Fill out the scale catalogue===
=== Page counts for subcategories ===
Sources for this: all the Yahoo! lists, the Scala archive, original reflection on new and old scales, pages of X.J. Scott, David Finnamore, Tonalsoft...? Have at least one sound example (midi, mp3, ogg...) for each scale, and keep in mind that this wiki allows you to upload files up to 5 MB each.


Ever since learning about the [[MOSScales|MOS scales]] I have desired but not seen a good, thorough introduction to them, or to the two-dimensional method of creating scales.
On wikipedia, in a category, each subcategory has its number of pages and subcategories shown. It would be helpful to implement this here as well, especially being useful in [[:Category:Todo]]. [[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 06:03, 13 January 2026 (UTC)


===An FAQ: everyone posts questions, answers.===
=== To stop formula rendering on all edit summaries ===
This could be sufficiently primed by mining the lists. But more importantly it would need to be linked to by a high-search-engine-ranking page.


===Pages on debates?===
We are planning to change the specification so that equation rendering in the edit comments on each page's History/diffs and [[Special:RecentChanges]] is stopped. This is because [[Xenharmonic Wiki talk:Bugs #Bug_in_interpreting_certain_characters_in_change_comments|it can be inconvenient when trying to include regular expressions for sed commands in edit summaries]]. With this change, raw comments will be displayed, including past edit summaries. We will announce this here, and plan to make the change in about a week. We welcome your opinions. --[[User:Dummy index|Dummy index]] ([[User talk:Dummy index|talk]]) 16:12, 15 January 2026 (UTC)
Do we want to touch the dangerous stuff? JI vs. ET vs. EDO? MMM vs. just plain MM? The point would not be to have another place to play out the old arguments, but to ''make'' something useful out of them.
 
: Sounds like the right thing for security. [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio|talk]]) 21:04, 15 January 2026 (UTC)
 
=== Protect templates ===


On the other hand, we ''could'' make pages on points that many can agree on, with the aim of working together to come up with ways to meet our collective goals. The obvious one, originally Harry Partch: Microtonality is overlooked or dismissed all too often, and the best way to counter its detractors is in making good music with it.
Some templates, such as [[Template:Infobox ET|Infobox ET]], are transcluded onto many pages, and thus should probably be protected. This will prevent vandalism on these templates, as well as safeguard against accidental breakage by inexperienced users. [[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 00:56, 15 February 2026 (UTC)


===More on making things: a radical proposal===
: Could you make a list of all the templates that might need to be protected? I think a specific list is more likely to result in something being actioned. I do think this is a broadly good idea. --[[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 02:39, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
To me, the wiki as a structure remains an invitation to try new ways to represent information and to cause social interaction to happen. Much of this is overlap with the general Web 2.0 mentality, as well as creeping exhibitionism: why blog or wiki about something you're doing instead of just doing it? What I add to it are '''Unreasonable Expectations''' (that others are doing similar things and just need a poke or two in the direction of sharing) and '''Half-Baked Ideas''' (for projects that I personally don't have the time to complete but we can perhaps get a coalition of the wishing-it-would-happen). This idea itself is admittedly half-baked, but (and this is the point) I don't let it stop me.


So the radical proposal is this: be irresponsible. Start something you don't intend to finish, just to see how beautiful it is. Pretend you are backed up by a solid movement of joyous people rather than a smattering of bickering and frigid but seemingly well-meaning folks. And it will (maybe) come true.
:: There is a list of top transcluded pages at [[Special:MostTranscludedPages]]. I think the top 20 should be fully protected, as well as some metatemplates like [[Template:Yesno]], and some character substitution templates. The top 50 or so should be semi-protected, or maybe extended-confirmed (which doesn't exist yet) protected. There's maybe more; that's just a start. [[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 04:14, 15 February 2026 (UTC)


== See also ==
: Have there been issues recently or is it only preventive? I wouldn't want to protect pages excessively either, because that may limit useful contributions as well. If there are specific examples, it might help me understand the current content. (I do skim the recent changes regularly, but I don't necessarily notice all page-breaking changes that may occur.) --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:28, 16 February 2026 (UTC)


* [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Conventions]]
:: Ok, maybe it wouldn't be necessary right now. Perhaps it could be considered if this wiki becomes larger in the future. --[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 19:21, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
* [[Migration FAQ]]
* [[Xenharmonic Wiki:Things to do]]


[[Category:Help]]
[[Category:Xenharmonic Wiki]]
[[Category:Projects]]
[[Category:Projects]]
[[Category:Wiki]]
[[Category:Archive]]
[[Category:Archive]]
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