Talk:159edo/Notation: Difference between revisions

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== My Second Idea for a Notation System ==

Okay, after talking with Sam, I now think ~~while~~ we need to make another notation system. Truth be told, I've been trying to make a notation system that is accessible for people with a background in [[24edo]] like myself this whole time, and this is the main reason for my notation systems being as complicated as they are. Nevertheless, I'm hoping to make things as intuitive as possible as well. I'm thinking that this new system should keep the traditional symbols for naturals, sharps, flats, double sharps and double flats, and that we need to make two different versions of each of the quartertone accidentals to reflect how the rastma is not tempered out, and that some of these quartertone accidentals can only be lowered, while the others can only be raised.

Okay, after talking with Sam, I now think we need to make another notation system. Truth be told, I've been trying to make a notation system that is accessible for people with a background in [[24edo]] like myself this whole time, and this is the main reason for my notation systems being as complicated as they are. Nevertheless, I'm hoping to make things as intuitive as possible as well. I'm thinking that this new system should keep the traditional symbols for naturals, sharps, flats, double sharps and double flats, and that we need to make two different versions of each of the quartertone accidentals to reflect how the rastma is not tempered out, and that some of these quartertone accidentals can only be lowered, while the others can only be raised.

One set of quartertone accidentals has the two broad cross strokes of the traditional demisharp accidental set closer together than those of the sharp accidental while keeping the same traditional "demiflat" accidental, while the "sesquisharp" accidental and the "sesquiflat" accidental in this set are similarly redesigned, and modify the base tone by an interval consisting of an apotome and a 33/32 quartertone. The second set of quartertone accidentals are also based on the traditional quartertone accidentals, and the second "demisharp" and "sesquisharp" accidentals has the two broad cross strokes set further apart than those of the sharp accidental, while the corresponding "demiflat" and "sesquiflat" accidentals each have a narrow cross stroke on their stems- the "demisharp" and "demiflat" accidentals in this set modify the base tone by a 709/704 interval, while the "sesquisharp" and "sesquiflat" accidentals in this set modify the base tone by an interval consisting of an apotome and a 709/704 interval. Furthermore, since the rastma itself is a potential JI basis for the single step of 159edo, and since combined symbols need to be deciphered, I think we need to make two new sets of symbols- one set for modification by one or two syntonic commas based on the combining arrows from Helmholtz-Ellis notation, and another pair of symbols to represent modification by a rastma. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:46, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

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:: Thanks for your thoughts, Flora. Besides the minor flaws (lenghts of verticals) the sharps seem okay to me, but the flats are harder. I'm not sure if sticking with the b-shape isn't the fundamental problem here. But you are experienced with fonts maybe you are the right person for the details. Maybe having three lines is for 4 accidentals each is not ideal. I did a tiny improvement right now to set the single accidental glyphs apart from each other (maybe a browser refresh will be needed). --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 06:50, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

::: For the record, if there are issues with the flat ~~accidentls~~, I'd have to say that the thickness and angle of the extra strokes on the stems of the narrow and wide flat accidentals is most likely to be the problem. Perhaps those cross strokes ought to be thicker and should set at 60-degree angles from the vertical rather than 45-degree angles. The reason I say this is that those extra strokes are what make the extra flat accidentals stand out from one another, while the shape of the rest of the accidental is what makes them ~~recognisable~~ as flats in the first place. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 14:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

::: For the record, if there are issues with the flat accidentals, I'd have to say that the thickness and angle of the extra strokes on the stems of the narrow and wide flat accidentals is most likely to be the problem. Perhaps those cross strokes ought to be thicker and should set at 60-degree angles from the vertical rather than 45-degree angles. The reason I say this is that those extra strokes are what make the extra flat accidentals stand out from one another, while the shape of the rest of the accidental is what makes them recognizable as flats in the first place. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 14:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

:::: When you said "60-degree angles from the vertical" -- did you mean this [[File:Rect949.png|24x24px]]? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:44, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

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Okay Xenwolf and Flora, after talking on Discord with other people about possible accidentals, I think I've arrived at a solution for a different set of accidentals for 159edo...

[[File:Quartertone Accidentals.png]]

[[File:Quartertone Accidentals.png|1400px]]

[[File:Syntonic Accidentals.png]]

[[File:Syntonic Accidentals.png|700px]]

[[File:Rastmic Accidentals.png]]

[[File:Rastmic Accidentals.png|700px]]

I hope you two like these. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 22:52, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

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 == My Second Idea for a Notation System ==
-Okay, after talking with Sam, I now think while we need to make another notation system.  Truth be told, I've been trying to make a notation system that is accessible for people with a background in [[24edo]] like myself this whole time, and this is the main reason for my notation systems being as complicated as they are.  Nevertheless, I'm hoping to make things as intuitive as possible as well.  I'm thinking that this new system should keep the traditional symbols for naturals, sharps, flats, double sharps and double flats, and that we need to make two different versions of each of the quartertone accidentals to reflect how the rastma is not tempered out, and that some of these quartertone accidentals can only be lowered, while the others can only be raised.
+Okay, after talking with Sam, I now think we need to make another notation system.  Truth be told, I've been trying to make a notation system that is accessible for people with a background in [[24edo]] like myself this whole time, and this is the main reason for my notation systems being as complicated as they are.  Nevertheless, I'm hoping to make things as intuitive as possible as well.  I'm thinking that this new system should keep the traditional symbols for naturals, sharps, flats, double sharps and double flats, and that we need to make two different versions of each of the quartertone accidentals to reflect how the rastma is not tempered out, and that some of these quartertone accidentals can only be lowered, while the others can only be raised.
 One set of quartertone accidentals has the two broad cross strokes of the traditional demisharp accidental set closer together than those of the sharp accidental while keeping the same traditional "demiflat" accidental, while the "sesquisharp" accidental and the "sesquiflat" accidental in this set are similarly redesigned, and modify the base tone by an interval consisting of an apotome and a 33/32 quartertone.  The second set of quartertone accidentals are also based on the traditional quartertone accidentals, and the second "demisharp" and "sesquisharp" accidentals has the two broad cross strokes set further apart than those of the sharp accidental, while the corresponding "demiflat" and "sesquiflat" accidentals each have a narrow cross stroke on their stems- the "demisharp" and "demiflat" accidentals in this set modify the base tone by a 709/704 interval, while the "sesquisharp" and "sesquiflat" accidentals in this set modify the base tone by an interval consisting of an apotome and a 709/704 interval.  Furthermore, since the rastma itself is a potential JI basis for the single step of 159edo, and since combined symbols need to be deciphered, I think we need to make two new sets of symbols- one set for modification by one or two syntonic commas based on the combining arrows from Helmholtz-Ellis notation, and another pair of symbols to represent modification by a rastma. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:46, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
@@ Line 197: / Line 197: @@
 :: Thanks for your thoughts, Flora. Besides the minor flaws (lenghts of verticals) the sharps seem okay to me, but the flats are harder. I'm not sure if sticking with the b-shape isn't the fundamental problem here. But you are experienced with fonts maybe you are the right person for the details. Maybe having three lines is for 4 accidentals each is not ideal. I did a tiny improvement right now to set the single accidental glyphs apart from each other (maybe a browser refresh will be needed). --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 06:50, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
-::: For the record, if there are issues with the flat accidentls, I'd have to say that the thickness and angle of the extra strokes on the stems of the narrow and wide flat accidentals is most likely to be the problem.  Perhaps those cross strokes ought to be thicker and should set at 60-degree angles from the vertical rather than 45-degree angles.  The reason I say this is that those extra strokes are what make the extra flat accidentals stand out from one another, while the shape of the rest of the accidental is what makes them recognisable as flats in the first place. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 14:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
+::: For the record, if there are issues with the flat accidentals, I'd have to say that the thickness and angle of the extra strokes on the stems of the narrow and wide flat accidentals is most likely to be the problem.  Perhaps those cross strokes ought to be thicker and should set at 60-degree angles from the vertical rather than 45-degree angles.  The reason I say this is that those extra strokes are what make the extra flat accidentals stand out from one another, while the shape of the rest of the accidental is what makes them recognizable as flats in the first place. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 14:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
 :::: When you said "60-degree angles from the vertical" -- did you mean this [[File:Rect949.png|24x24px]]? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:44, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
@@ Line 241: / Line 241: @@
 Okay Xenwolf and Flora, after talking on Discord with other people about possible accidentals, I think I've arrived at a solution for a different set of accidentals for 159edo...
-[[File:Quartertone Accidentals.png]]
+[[File:Quartertone Accidentals.png|1400px]]
-[[File:Syntonic Accidentals.png]]
+[[File:Syntonic Accidentals.png|700px]]
-[[File:Rastmic Accidentals.png]]
+[[File:Rastmic Accidentals.png|700px]]
 I hope you two like these. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 22:52, 14 July 2021 (UTC)